The Ranting Game

[macmarauder]

well since you guys want to know about the Political Thread. someone made a post just asking for trouble and several members voiced their anger at the post made. it got pretty ugly and was obviously going to get much worse so one of the Mods moved it into a special folder for review were Mods and Admins can see it. several of the Mods have reread it and we agree that it was just getting to heated. i don't know what more to say except that it got to the point where it was no longer a discussion and became a something too harsh. i hate it when someone takes it too far and things degrade like this.

you can place part of the blame on me cause i started the thread just to get politics out of the MDA thread and i see now that was not the best thing to do.

[blim]

JDoors, your explanation makes sense. Now I wonder what is to happen to all the donated used goods? Tens of thousands emptied their closets, basements and travel trailers and I hope these goods are put to use somewhere.

And Macmarauder, I for one put no blame whatsoever on you. You saw people's emotions trickling into threads they didn't belong in, and you gave them their own place to discuss things. And "pot stirrers" can sometimes spark amazing debates which we all can learn from, but perhaps not when people's emotions are working overtime.

I think a political thread is a great idea----I learned a lot from reading that (my head's still spinning, too much information!) but maybe better used when things calm down Please consider bringing it back in the future, when folks are able to discuss things calmly.

Liz

[bar5]

Mac, don't blame yourself for anything.

Your intentions were correct to move it out of MDA thread.

Barb

[TheTerrorist_75]

A new rant. Why can't billing offices do their jobs? I just found out that my medical bills from an injury received over 4 years ago were never turned in to the insurance company. The hospital and surgeon just sent them into a collection agency in the last couple of months without contacting me that they goofed up. I am now $18,000.00 in debt after having a clean credit record for the last several years. They have my address and phone number. Not only that but I have ran into the person in charge of billing at the hospital plus I've seen and talked to the secretary of the surgeon. Neither said a word about the bill. Now I need to dig out all of my medical records pertaining to this mess and make copies so I can remit them. As if the insurance company would pay them after my getting upset with them and canceling that policy.

[JDoors]

(Oh yeah, you're gonna start a whole 'nother round of posts if you're bringing up insurance companies!)

I'm sure no one you spoke with brought it up for good reasons. Like; Some are not involved in billing so had no idea the bill hadn't been paid, while others assumed you were a deadbeat and didn't want to confront you.

Once they send the bill to the insurance companies it takes months to hear back, then there's months of negotiating if they don't pay the whole thing right away, then there's months more while they wait for that actual payment. By then any amount NOT paid is ALREADY past due by a long shot and, IMO, billing departments aren't smart enough (or maybe they don't have the authority) to figure out that YOU have never seen these bills, they are new to you, and so they should start the clock over again. Nope, it's past due, it goes to collection.

Some system.

[rant] Insurance. It drives prices up. I lost my medical, dental and eye care insurance through work. I need medical, dental and eye care. I can't afford it. Why? Because they can charge thousands and thousands of dollars for visits and procedures and implements and on and on since they know a major portion will be paid out of a virtually endless pool of insurance money. I go to a doctor and he's in a building complex that costs millions of dollars, I have to go through two receptionists -- the lobby one, then the office one -- and why? Because he can afford it; It's that endless pool of money.

I need a crown, a piece of ceramic shaped like a tooth. What's that, five cents worth of ceramic? Fifty bucks to make a mold, cast & fire it, if they don't use cold cured ceramic? Let's give the doc a hundred bucks for his trouble. Hey, around two hundred right? Nope, thousands by the time it's all said and done.

And here's the real burns-my-gut rant: Even if you have insurance you have to pay the deductable, which by SHEAR COINCIDENCE (I'm sure) comes out to exactly what the procedure costs in the first place! You have to pay the entire cost, the rest of the bill, the thousands of dollars part, would never even be there if there were no insurance companies. So this entire insurance pyramid; from your payments, to billing, to deductables, to collections, is entirely fabricated and unnecessary.[/rant]

[TheTerrorist_75]

Truth to your statement. The $18,000.00 charge is for carving a hematoma from my leg then placing me in isolation for ten days. The damn hospital ran out of clean gowns, bedding and bandages during those ten days. The surgeon got POed and sent me home figuring I could take better care of myself than our local meat farm called a hospital.

[robroy]

That sounds oh so familiar, only with me it was the wife

[blim]

Oooh, insurance--what a racket. A legal Mafia if you ask me (and I once worked in the insurance industry!!)

One March we had one of our famous Michigan Windstorms. Tore a section of the Carriage House roof off. Decided to call the Homeowners Insurance Company. Adjuster came out, Insurance paid $148 and 2 weeks later, cancelled our policy "due to condition of the house". The adjuster never went inside and was looking at the aftermath of a windstorm!!!! Got an agent out to the house, she immediately re-instated the policy after she looked inside. Then I got a new insurer and cancelled that one Now I have $1000 deductable and plan to never use the Homeowners unless the place burns down.

Come to find out that the new "trend" is if you make a Homeowners claim, they cancel you. Floridians can certainly vouch for that.

And with car insurance......if you make a claim, they raise your rates for 3 years, which pretty much adds up to the cost of the claim....basically the claim paid is just a 3 year loan. PLPD is the way to go!!!

Did you know many Insurance Agents make 100% commission on your first years payments? And usually 25% on your renewals.

And Terrorist, I don't know about your area, but here, the "office staff" at our doctor's office are complete idiots who hate their jobs and could care less about patients. I bellyache to the doctor and he agrees!!!! I imagine a hospital is the same way.

Liz

Edited September 11, 2005 by blim

[JDoors]

[reply rant] Arrghh, "claims." A moron stripped my car, totalling it, and the adjuster came out. He's circling every little scratch, every paint bubble, in a ten year old car yet, to lower the amount paid. "Oh, a bird crapped on it, that's gonna cost ya!" (JK on that one.)

It was an old car, and I guess on that one and another old car that someone crashed into I did get enough money to buy another car in exactly the same condition as the ones I lost: Totaled. I kinda thought you insure against a "loss" to replace what you lost (in both cases I lost use of a fully functioning car), but that's a fantasy, isn't it?

All current advice says to get a huge deductible -- only insure against total loss. In other words, you have to self-insure against small losses so insurance companies can make more money. Why has it come to this?

And they just keep thinkin' up ways to screw their customers over, the latest and anger-inspiring one is to use your credit rating to judge what your rate should be. Say what? You have a lot of credit card debt so you're more likely to get in an auto accident? Or have a tornado hit your house? [/rant]

[new rant] I hate the way people use statistics to prove whatever point they are trying to make. Whether it's inurance companies saying low credit scores correlate to higher claims, or a recent local story stating some Illinois counties receive a disproportionate amount of Homeland Security funding because, and this is where statistics play their dirty little role, those counties received more funding "per capita."

The truth, as if that matters any more, is those counties received very little money. The truth is that measly amount of money could purchase a small county their only piece of emergency equipment. But because the population is extremely small compared to, say, Cook County (Chicago area), you can find a way to manipulate the numbers to make it look like they're getting "too much" money. Grrr, statistics. [/rant]

[blim]

edited till I get more proof.

Liz

Edited September 13, 2005 by blim

[bozodog]

Oooh, insurance--what a racket. A legal Mafia if you ask me (and I once worked in the insurance industry!!)

You got it Blim. I bought and paid for my house and a beautiful 40 acres with money I *could* have spent on "health insurance" During that time and beyond, I have spent more on vet care for my critters then my health. In 30 years, 3-4 visits to the doc, and a broken shoulder set me back only about $3500. Count up health insurance costs over 30 years starting at $32 a week in 1976, to now at $63 a week. I figure I could have bought a doctor his summer home on the lake for that kind of money.

Michigan has an insurance law for PLPD on cars, that if you don't have health insurance, you pay $144 extra a year for your policy. Wait! I have two cars, Only me drives them (one at a time, of course) but I have to pay that same *tax* on both! What's up with that?

And homeowners? What crap. When I was having some fianancial problems I let my homeowners go. The bank insisted I get some. I said I can't, no money. They said, well, we will then. HA! I was billed $68 a year for full insurance on the structure. Yeah, my belongings were in jepordy, but my home was covered for 10% of what it would have cost me.

Let me add: *MANDATORY INSURANCE IS A TAX!*

[JDoors]

... When I was having some fianancial problems I let my homeowners go. The bank insisted I get some. I said I can't, no money. They said, well, we will then. HA! I was billed $68 a year for full insurance on the structure. Yeah, my belongings were in jepordy, but my home was covered for 10% of what it would have cost me.

Let me add: *MANDATORY INSURANCE IS A TAX!*

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What the hey? I thought if a leinholder obtained the insurance it would be some ridiculously, outrageously high cost policy. Either I was wrong or your bank did you a favor -- Neither of which is even remotely possible ...

I wouldn't call mandatory insurance a tax as the proceeds go to private companies rather than the government, it's closer to an "unfunded mandate." Not as clear as using the word "tax," but it's an accurate description.

[rant] And speaking of unfunded mandates, I can't stand paying for all the mandatory equipment required for school that is in addition to all the taxes I pay to the school district. That should be self-explanatory. Here's a related beef: I drove past the local K-6 school and I just wish like hell I could afford one of the nice cars I saw parked in the teacher's lot. Imported sports sedans, luxury cars, two-seat sports cars, convertibles, large SUVs. How about taking some of that teachers salary and buying the kids some pencils and paper?[/rant]

[bozodog]

Here's a related beef: I drove past the local K-6 school and I just wish like hell I could afford one of the nice cars I saw parked in the teacher's lot. Imported sports sedans, luxury cars, two-seat sports cars, convertibles, large SUVs. How about taking some of that teachers salary and buying the kids some pencils and paper?

That's because they are the second earner in the family. That "not so big" teachers paycheck pays for the car, insurance, and daycare so they can get outta the house. There are too many moms/dads trading dollars for a job just to get the fancy American "stuff". Why should they spend it on paper and pencils for your kids? (j/k)

[JDoors]

While I didn't mean to say teachers should pay out of their pockets, I was aiming more for school districts should allocate their funds for the benefit of the students (and we all know where a lot of waste actually occurs), I'm not feelin' too sorry for the teachers. A table from Illinois Teacher Salary Study shows they aren't hurtin' any (copied from PDF table so formatting skewed):

Table 5. MEAN PAID SALARY FOR FULL-TIME CLASSROOM TEACHERS* **

1998-99 % Inc. 1999-00 %Inc. 2000-01 %Inc. 2001-02 %Inc. 2002-03 %Inc. 2003-04 % Inc.

Downstate Mean $44,346 3.6% $45,515 2.6% $46,900 3.0% $48,601 3.6% $50,196 3.3% $53,820 7.2%

Chicago Mean $49,163 3.9% $50,736 3.2% $52,002 2.5% $54,766 5.3% $57,111 4.9% $62,241 9.0%

Statewide Mean $45,286 3.6% $46,505 2.7% $47,865 2.9% $49,676 3.8% $51,496 3.7% $54,897 6.6%

B E G I N N I N G T E A C H E R S O N L Y

Statewide Mean $28,954 2.6% $30,154 4.1% $31,222 3.5% $31,513 0.9% $34,524 9.6% $34,736 0.6%

* Includes full-time elementary, secondary, and special education teachers in all districts, special education cooperatives, and area vocational centers.

**Starting in 1991-92, mean paid salary includes any compensation reported as earnings to the Teachers' Retirement System.

[Bubba Bob]

Well that's Illinios.

I know from first hand, that here in Texas teachers practically get paid with rice and beans. Oh, lets all thank the Texas legislature for not giving teachers their first raise in who knows how many years.... **waves with one finger**

[JDoors]

The wonders of the Internet (26.5% increase vs 10.7% inflation?!?):

"There were 99,400 full-time teachers in 1999 who were still employed as teachers by Texas school districts in the 2002-2003 school year. The average salaries of those individuals increased $9,300 or 26.5 percent between 1999 and 2003. Inflation over the same period was 10.7 percent [source: Texas Education Agency PEIMS data]

In 2001-2002, Texas average teacher salaries, adjusted for cost of living, ranked 16th among the 50 states. [source: American Federation of Teachers, Survey and Analysis of Teacher Salary Trends, 2002]

Average Teacher Salaries [source: TEA Snapshots]

Year Without Supplements With Supplements*

1998-99 34,336 34,949

1999-00 37,567 38,287

2000-01 38,361 39,122

2001-02 39,232 40,049

2002-03* 39,974 41,597

*Includes things like master Teacher grants, Professional"

<edit> Dang, I forgot to attribute that quote -- I could do the search again and browse through all the results and all the pages of all the results -- If anyone wants the specific site. (You don't, do you?)

Edited September 13, 2005 by JDoors

[Bubba Bob]

OK, you can use google. I hope you feel special

What numbers dont give you, are reasons.

THe pay was raised in those years because texas teacher's salaries were ranked so low in the nation. Teachers are still paid very little.

If you want to argue this subject, come and visit me down here in the loan star state, and ill be glad to show you what numbers on the computer cant.

Edited September 13, 2005 by Bubba Bob

[JDoors]

I'd love to come down and discuss how your perception does not match reality, but after all my recent CUTS in income I can no longer afford the trip. I'm on track to make ten thousand dollars less this year than last, and that's just salary. I'm also losing approximately five thousand dollars in additional income (rentals). So ... Are they hiring any teachers in TX? I'd settle for a starting salary of nearly 40K.

[Bubba Bob]

I'd settle for a starting salary of nearly 40K.

$40k!!!

I know people that have taught for nearly 40 years that make a little over $40K. I highly doubt big cities such as Dallas or Houston even pay $40K for first year teachers.

Your looking at averages! Not first year picks.

Try $24-$29K. Does that sound fair for all the time teachers put in?

Now, dont tell me Im not in touch of reality when you obviously dont know what your talking about.

Edited September 13, 2005 by Bubba Bob

[JDoors]

And you're singling out only the first year salaries. What percent of teachers are only in their first year? Well, it's been fun playing with statistics but I've been warned away from controversy before so I'll drop it, especially since I don't know what I'm talking about.

<edit>

Edited September 14, 2005 by JDoors

[Bubba Bob]

And you're singling out only the first year salaries.

Yeah....

After What you said:

I'd settle for a starting salary of nearly 40K.

You have to work many years to work up to 40k.

What percent of teachers are only in their first year?

How many are in the 40K range?

Edited September 14, 2005 by Bubba Bob

[JSKY]

40Ks??? I worked for the largest gold mine in the northern hemisphere for 20 years and just started getting close to that when they closed it down in 98. Now after a couple of different jobs, I found one that pays a little over half of what I made there.

Only thing going for me where I live is the cost of living. Surprisingly I make good wages here. And I know that teachers aren't getting close to what I make now.

[mikex]

I have to jump in here.

I sub'ed at the local elementry and high school, they don't get what they deserve as a whole. There are some that need pay cuts or to be booted.

I know many do not get money that is marked for education, this money filters down through the school board office personel.

Louisiana passed laws for casinos to operate in this state, the taxes were to go to teachers. Did it? NOOOOoooo. We are talking MILLIONS of dollars a day in taxes from casinos.

[blim]

A big problem in the school systems is "expensive fluff". Our school buys new Football uniforms every other year--yet the Soccer team wears their uniforms for 5-8 years, "because people pay for football games so it brings in money". Why in the world do they need to "look pretty"? Fans care about the games, not the looks.

We have a Teachers Supply Store nearby. Ridiculously expensive, but the business is booming. In our area, teachers and administrators can bill the school for supplies bought there. Can they buy the same supplies at Walmart? Sure. Do they? No.

Our school superintendant makes easily double what a teacher does. Why?

A big thorn in my side is Michigan's Teacher Tenure Policy. Once a teacher gets tenure (usually after 1-3 years) they cannot get fired, unless it's a "biggie", like illegal activities. In our school, we have some absolutely terrible teachers who are untouchable. The good teachers completely deserve their pay, but the bad ones are getting paid the same wage. A language teacher at our Community College can tell which high schools the students went to without asking, just by their skills.

Our high school has an after school tutoring program that the teachers are supposed to take at least one day a week to participate. Guess what? The Chemistry teacher refuses to tutor. And he gets away with it.

Ah, Casinos....Michigan started a Lottery many years ago "to help fund the schools". I don't think the schools have seen a penny of it, yet there are Lottery Machines in every store and plenty of Lottery Ads on television.....

Sorry for multi-tasking my rant

Liz

[JDoors]

... casinos ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[rant] Casinos! Arrgghh. I'm IN the casino industry and I know ... err ... suspect ... where the money's going. The one I work at makes a million dollars A DAY. That's 365 days a year, with 70% going to taxes. And there are ten casino licenses in my state! And yet, what's on the ballot every single election cycle? Schools asking for more money.[/rant]

A couple of recent local investigative news stories pointed out that several school districts have millions of dollars sitting in overlooked accounts. A rounding error for them I guess.