Online Banking

[JDoors]

I've been hesitant to do much online. Not buying, I've been doing that like forever. But managing accounts? Transferring money? Going "paperless?" No thanks. I don't trust that the entire line of hardware and software that must be trusted will work, every time. My computer might crash, leaving me with no Internet access. The software might crash. My phone/DSL line might not be available. My bank's hardware and software has to be up and running and reliable. Not to mention I need electricity (see my 'power outtage' threads).

However, due to my current financial situation, I've had the need to transfer money back and forth every couple of weeks, if not more often.

I get last month's statement and begin to balance my checking and savings accounts and ... What are all THESE transfers? Small, odd amounts' $10.62, $122.37, etc. Hmm, and where are the transfers I DID make? Large, even amounts? Not there.

Even though I followed the correct procedures online, checking that the transfers did take place, it appears some of them haven't been "sticking." Those small transfers were automatic coverage of overdrafts on my checking account (since my transfers from savings to checking didn't "stick").

Now I'm stuck with trying to balance checking and savings accounts that have drifted from the bank's records since the middle of March. I am not happy.

I'll call them, but bet they're not open today (Good Friday). Not sure I wanna call tomorrow (Saturday). And I'm not sure I want to wait until Monday. Like I have a choice? Arrghh.

And ... I NEW THIS COULD HAPPEN, but I got in the habit of banking online anyway. Duh.

[hitest]

Yeah, my banker has tried to sell me on the idea of on-line banking, but, like you I'm not comfortable with it. I may be forced to use it though as the new bank that will be holding our mortgage does not send home monthly mortgage statements. Grrr.

[Peaches]

As someone who worked in the banking industry, no way would anyone convince me to do online banking because no matter how fussy we are with our computers, do U know what is lurking unbeknown to U that may be logging your keystrokes, etc? Criminals are thinking up new ideas of stealing your assets and I am not about to make it easy for them. Also, by actually dealing with a human, I keep someone employed and off the welfare role if they cannot find work. Another aspect of personal communication is when U have to deal with an issue then at least the staff know who U are rather than U being just an account number. The only area where I have an online banking account is with a bank abroad which is not considered a very active account, but have yet to use the convenience as I check my statements when they are sent out to me. But then, that is just me and my preferences.

[hitest]

As someone who worked in the banking industry, no way would anyone convince me to do online banking because no matter how fussy we are with our computers, do U know what is lurking unbeknown to U that may be logging your keystrokes, etc? Criminals are thinking up new ideas of stealing your assets and I am not about to make it easy for them. Also, by actually dealing with a human, I keep someone employed and off the welfare role if they cannot find work. Another aspect of personal communication is when U have to deal with an issue then at least the staff know who U are rather than U being just an account number. The only area where I have an online banking account is with a bank abroad which is not considered a very active account, but have yet to use the convenience as I check my statements when they are sent out to me. But then, that is just me and my preferences.

Agreed. I'm going to opt for the personal touch when my mortgage gets transferred to my new bank later this month. Once per month I'll go in and ask to see my current balance on my account. Yes. Hackers, keyloggers, etc, are a very real possibility.

[JDoors]

I'm not too concerned about security, I've been purchasing items online forever, using credit cards, without incident (touch wood). 128-bit encryption is good enough for me, and with anti-virus software running, a DSL modem/router, my ISP's proxy, malware scans and pretty safe surfing habits, I'm not gonna worry about something that's not likely to happen. And financially, one, I watch things pretty closely (ironically, I missed this one), two, I balance statements regularly (that's how I caught this), and three ... I basically have no money to steal!

For me, it's entirely about access when I need it and not having to rely on having things working that I have NO control over.

hitest: I can't imagine NOT getting a paper statement. Where's YOUR record? That's just nuts.

Peaches: I'm in a credit union that's not based locally, it's in the state where my company is/was based. Face-to-face interaction is kinda out of the question, or would require two four hour plane trips each time.

*****

I called, they essentially were as perplexed as I, and basically just told me how to bring my books up-to-date with theirs. Nice that they were automatically covering overdrafts with automatic transfers, up to their limit, then when one more check came through they just paid it, bringing my account below zero, and through it all, NO FEES!

Man, my old banks would'a had a field day, charging me each and every time; Overdraft? Fee. Transfer from savings to checking to cover the overdraft? Fee. Four times? A fee each time. Reached a limit for auto-transfers and receive another overdraft? BIG fee, OR a bounced check, which requires, you guessed it, A FEE!

[hitest]

hitest: I can't imagine NOT getting a paper statement. Where's YOUR record? That's just nuts.

Yeah. I agree. I'm used to getting a paper record with my present bank. I hope I can arrange some kind of paper record. We will see.

[blim]

I also won't do online banking because of all the cooties out there and my bank is only a couple miles away, but Peaches brings up a great point, keeping people employed by dealing with a human being.

Our grocery store has "self-checkout lanes", which I will not use because they eliminate jobs.

GLAD your bank is working with you, JDoors!!

Liz

[Matt]

Ok, I'll bite... I do most of my banking online

I pay my credit card and move money between checking/savings online. I also have an eTrade account so I can move money to/from that in connection with my banking accounts. It's just so convenient. And I can't have a car on campus, so it's such a hassle to walk to the bank. In fact, I only go to deposit checks or if I have a question/concern. I don't currently have it set up to pay my bills automatically... I still write checks, but I've been thinking about it. The only reason I don't right now is because I like being semi-aware of where my money is and how it's being used

You may or may not know it, but many banks now let you log on online without having to set anything up. That means if someone were to steal some of your personal information, they might be able to gain access to your account online even if you've never even banked online

[hitest]

You may or may not know it, but many banks now let you log on online without having to set anything up. That means if someone were to steal some of your personal information, they might be able to gain access to your account online even if you've never even banked online

Exactly, Matt!

That is why I won't log-in to my bank account on-line. It would be my luck that my unit has a rootkit or a keylogger installed:-) I do recognize the convenience and attractiveness of being able to do all your banking on-line.

[Honda_Boy]

I do all my main banking physically. I only check my balances online. I use that in the place of my checkbook. I monitor all transactions to make sure no unauthorized transactions happen, and to check how much money I have before ordering stuff online or really buying stuff anywhere. Otherwise, when I gotta transfer, deposit, withdraw, whatever, I do it at the bank.

[bar5]

I do all my main banking physically. I only check my balances online. I use that in the place of my checkbook. I monitor all transactions to make sure no unauthorized transactions happen, and to check how much money I have before ordering stuff online or really buying stuff anywhere. Otherwise, when I gotta transfer, deposit, withdraw, whatever, I do it at the bank.

I do mine pretty much like Honda Boy does. Use it only to check balances. All transactions done at bank.

I do a lot of online buying, because I don't have access to any big stores except Walmart and Lowes. We only have a lot of local stores etc.

[Pete_C]

Well I have been using online banking since they first told me I could have it for free.

Within a couple of months I caught a banking error (they charged me a $20 fee they should not have ). Printing out the transactions list I went to the bank and got my money back.

I soon began with the online bill pay (hey since I have free online banking and free bill pay that saves me the cost of stamps and they have a guaranteed two business day on most of the payees ). Easy to do when I go through the daily mail , login and pay the bills as they arrive.

I still do not go fully paperless; I like having my bills come in the mail and write down the confirmation codes and payment dates.

I use the easy download statement to msmoney option so I can make notes of what debit card payments and withdrawals were fore , notes on checks etc. Then I can easily itemize my spending.

Of course I am still cautious. I keep all my passwords encrypted in a double password protected vault not on my primary drive.. Then just copy and paste .

(yes, I keep multiple copies just in case).

Still some things I would like them to add (like virtual credit card ) but there are workarounds.

[bar5]

I pay all my bills by EFT (electronic funds transfer), same here saves stamps. So, I guess you would consider that on line banking. Forgot about that.

I keep a check on it periodically. Never had any trouble.

[JDoors]

... Our grocery store has "self-checkout lanes", which I will not use because they eliminate jobs. ...

I felt that way too, plus the procedure still has plenty of bugs in it; Checkout can be stopped by a "Please wait for assistance" message -- giving you have no reason (as you learn the system you learn to avoid, or ignore, those messages), coupons tend to not read which requires you wait for assistance, at the place I go to the conveyor backs up all the time which requires you stop and clear it, "Please rescan the item" messeges are particularly irritating as you wonder if you're gonna get charged twice, "Please remove the item from the belt" messages when there's NO VALID REASON to do so, etc.

AND, I actually feel guilty for using it. After I'm done and am wheeling my cart past the cashiers at their stations I feel like I'm threatening their jobs. You kinda get to know those people and ... well, justified or not, I feel bad.

However, I have to walk PAST the usually empty self-checkout lanes to get to the cashier stations, with their lines of customers with carts overflowing. Do I REALLY wanna wait in line? I've only got twenty or thirty items, too much to use the express lanes, but fewer than most of the people in line. I'm learning to live with the guilt.

Oh yeah, and if I've only got a couple of items? Self-checkout is a Godsend. Grab my stuff, checkout and GO, GO, GO!

Edited April 11, 2009 by JDoors

[bar5]

Pete:

What is keepass? Where can I get it? Sounds like a good idea.

[hitest]

Oh yeah, and if I've only got a couple of items? Self-checkout is a Godsend. Grab my stuff, checkout and GO, GO, GO!

Self check-out! That is an amazing idea. I have not seen that implemented up here in Canada. Do they have security tags on all items to prevent people from just walking out the door with them?

[Matt]

Oh yeah, and if I've only got a couple of items? Self-checkout is a Godsend. Grab my stuff, checkout and GO, GO, GO!

Self check-out! That is an amazing idea. I have not seen that implemented up here in Canada. Do they have security tags on all items to prevent people from just walking out the door with them?

The way it works at my grocery store is you can't place an item in a bag without scanning it first. If the bag weighs more than it should (based on the scanned item) it yells at you. There's also cameras installed in all of the checkout terminals, and there's always a person stationed at the area if you need assistance.

[Matt]

Pete:

What is keepass? Where can I get it? Sounds like a good idea.

There's KeePass and KeePassX. I've only ever used KeePassX. The way I used it was, I would have it generate long random passwords, and save them into an encrypted database. When I needed to log in, I just found the password I needed, and c+p my credentials. It's considered very useful because not even the user knows the password. It was just a random long series of letters and numbers. I then put my encrypted database onto an encrypted USB drive so I could have my passwords wherever I needed. It sounds like Pete does something similar. Here's some info on both pieces of software. They're both free. From what I can tell, KeePassX is based off of KeePass, and just makes it a cross platform. If you use Windows, you might prefer KeePass.

KeePassX saves many different information e.g. user names, passwords, urls, attachments and comments in one single database. For a better management user-defined titles and icons can be specified for each single entry. Furthermore the entries are sorted in groups, which are customizable as well. The integrated search function allows to search in a single group or the complete database.

KeePassX offers a little utility for secure password generation. The password generator is very customizable, fast and easy to use. Especially someone who generates passwords frequently will appreciate this feature.

The complete database is always encrypted either with AES (alias Rijndael) or Twofish encryption algorithm using a 256 bit key. Therefore the saved information can be considered as quite safe. KeePassX uses a database format that is compatible with KeePass Password Safe. This makes the use of that application even more favourable.

http://keepass.info/

http://www.keepassx.org/

Here's some screenshots of KeePass's various functions:

http://keepass.info/screenshots.html

[JDoors]

The way it works at my grocery store is you can't place an item in a bag without scanning it first. If the bag weighs more than it should (based on the scanned item) it yells at you. There's also cameras installed in all of the checkout terminals, and there's always a person stationed at the area if you need assistance.

About the same here. There's one cashier for up to ten self-checkout aisles. Any time you need help you can click for help, or any time there's a problem (like an item you've tried repeatedly to scan without success) the system automatically calls the cashier over.

In the "no item limit" aisles the conveyor belt has electic eyes so: If you've scanned something it expects to "see" the item soon and warns you if it does not, and if you have NOT scanned something and put it on the belt it knows the item was not scanned and tells you to remove the item from the belt.

In the "limited items" aisles the bags are right next to the scanner, resting on a scale. The system knows what items weigh so once you scan an item and put it in the bag it makes the comparison and gripes if it finds a discrepancy. In either case if you scan something large or heavy it "knows" and gives you the choice to place it directly in your cart. Put too many items directly in your cart though and it signals a cashier.

Once you've scanned your items you can scan coupons (dropping them in a box), choose your payment method, choose cash back if desired, get any change, your receipt and any store coupons. If you're in the limited items aisle you put your bags in your cart, in the unlimited aisles you go to the end of the conveyor and bag your items.

All the while that sole cashier is charged with ensuring everyone's being honest.

[Matt]

About the same here. There's one cashier for up to ten self-checkout aisles. Any time you need help you can click for help, or any time there's a problem (like an item you've tried repeatedly to scan without success) the system automatically calls the cashier over.

In the "no item limit" aisles the conveyor belt has electic eyes so: If you've scanned something it expects to "see" the item soon and warns you if it does not, and if you have NOT scanned something and put it on the belt it knows the item was not scanned and tells you to remove the item from the belt.

In the "limited items" aisles the bags are right next to the scanner, resting on a scale. The system knows what items weigh so once you scan an item and put it in the bag it makes the comparison and gripes if it finds a discrepancy. In either case if you scan something large or heavy it "knows" and gives you the choice to place it directly in your cart. Put too many items directly in your cart though and it signals a cashier.

Once you've scanned your items you can scan coupons (dropping them in a box), choose your payment method, choose cash back if desired, get any change, your receipt and any store coupons. If you're in the limited items aisle you put your bags in your cart, in the unlimited aisles you go to the end of the conveyor and bag your items.

All the while that sole cashier is charged with ensuring everyone's being honest.

Wow, we only have the "limited item" ones. No conveyor belt. And we only have four terminals for the cashier to monitor.

Back to the topic of online banking.. a lot of financial institutions are starting to use devices like GoID (or similar) :

Go ID security device adds an additional layer of security to your online account. When logging into Fifth Third Direct, you will be prompted to enter a six-digit numeric code after your normal user name and password. This six-digit code is provided by your Go IDSM device, a key chain sized device that generates a new number every 60 seconds.

https://direct.53.com/help/53express/goid_faq.html

That way, on top of needing your login credentials, you also need to have that device with you. This way, identity thieves would also have to steal your GoID.

[bar5]

Pete:

What is keepass? Where can I get it? Sounds like a good idea.

There's KeePass and KeePassX. I've only ever used KeePassX. The way I used it was, I would have it generate long random passwords, and save them into an encrypted database. When I needed to log in, I just found the password I needed, and c+p my credentials. It's considered very useful because not even the user knows the password. It was just a random long series of letters and numbers. I then put my encrypted database onto an encrypted USB drive so I could have my passwords wherever I needed. It sounds like Pete does something similar. Here's some info on both pieces of software. They're both free. From what I can tell, KeePassX is based off of KeePass, and just makes it a cross platform. If you use Windows, you might prefer KeePass.

KeePassX saves many different information e.g. user names, passwords, urls, attachments and comments in one single database. For a better management user-defined titles and icons can be specified for each single entry. Furthermore the entries are sorted in groups, which are customizable as well. The integrated search function allows to search in a single group or the complete database.

KeePassX offers a little utility for secure password generation. The password generator is very customizable, fast and easy to use. Especially someone who generates passwords frequently will appreciate this feature.

The complete database is always encrypted either with AES (alias Rijndael) or Twofish encryption algorithm using a 256 bit key. Therefore the saved information can be considered as quite safe. KeePassX uses a database format that is compatible with KeePass Password Safe. This makes the use of that application even more favourable.

http://keepass.info/

http://www.keepassx.org/

Here's some screenshots of KeePass's various functions:

http://keepass.info/screenshots.html

Matt:

Thanks, I'll check it out. I may be back with some questions. Is this similar to a password generator that I use for my router?

Barb

[isteve]

I do all my online buying and bill paying with paypal. I hate using them but they seem to be everywhere. They also have a authentication key that I've been using for a little over a year now.

[Pete_C]

http://keepass.info/

http://sourceforge.net/projects/keepass/

Has long been one of my recommended free software choices.

You can generate and save passwords, and of course save the associated URL and username.

All is encrypted and you need to have the program running and enter the master password (you can save this as a key file on a usb jump drive or cdr if you prefer and have a huge long random one or you can save it to the registry so that it is not required ; or keep it in the registry and save your database to a removable drive ).

Very useful.

Never tried keepassx

Might have to try it out.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/keepassx/

http://www.keepassx.org/

Oh yes, I was an early adopter of the self checkout lines.

Around here Winn Dixie was the first to try them out, with one cashier for two lines. You checked out and bagged and then went to the cashier to pay. Little benefit there in terms of line length or checkout time; but the store was getting twice as much out of one cashier.

It used two belts with a scanner in the middle. The second belt only activated after you scanned an item and placed it on and the weight of what you had removed from belt 1 matched the weight placed on belt 2.

Kroger was next to adopt; one cashier handled initially four and now six checkouts.

These only have a scale on the bagging area and no belt. Really optimal for when you check out just a few light items. If you try putting a 50Lb bag of dogfood on the scale it overloads and you have to call for assistance. If you click the large item button it still won't let you proceed until the cashier okays it. Likewise, if you buy any restricted item (paint, beer, wine, glue, gas additives) it locks things until the cashier okays the purchase. Since more often than not the cashier is busy instructing someone who has no idea how to use a self checkout and has gotten frustrated it can be a major hassle . Likewise, when you scan a coupon and it tells you to put it in the slot and won't proceed until the cashier verifies you had a coupon (why put it in the slot if the cashier has to verify it???).

Albertsons, Walmart, even TomThumb (safeway) has them now.

But there are times when they are a good choice and times when they are not. You basically need to make the call when you are ready to checkout based on what you bought and how busy it is and how busy other lines are.

Recently my bank began using the new ATMs which no longer use an envelope or deposit slip. Just insert the check , it reads the info on it, presents you with an on screen scan of the check and the amount it thinks it is for, you confirm or correct and it deposits and prints you out a receipt with an image of the check. Same with cash deposits, feed in bills one at a time , it scans them and deposits.

[JDoors]

... if you buy any restricted item (paint, beer, wine, glue, gas additives) it locks things until the cashier okays the purchase. ... when you scan a coupon and it tells you to put it in the slot and won't proceed until the cashier verifies you had a coupon (why put it in the slot if the cashier has to verify it???

Thanks for the additional information. I'm still learning the system and wouldn't have thought about having to wait to have "restricted" items approved, and I've always had what I thought was needless complications with coupons but now I think I better understand what's happening -- it often says "wait for assistance" while allowing me to continue, a cashier comes over even though I have no idea why, and they usually point at the screen and say, "You received credit for that coupon." I'm like, so? But now I understand what's going on.

[Pete_C]

What is weird is that after scanning the coupon they still have a person verify you put it in the hole. Why not fully automate it and have the reader integrated into the acceptance slot just like a bill reader or check scanner at an atm . After all the machine already has a bill reader for payment.

Do they actually fear that I will steal the coupon and not put it in the bin so I can use it again????

I guess that a lot of stores are still working out the bugs.

We had one store experiment with giving you a UPC scanner gun with your cart. First you scan your "preferred shopper card" then You scan each item as you put it in the cart and then at the end swipe your card across the checkout and pay and it prints out the itemized receipt.