Curse You Reformulated Gas

[Pete_C]

Here in Dallas, all the gas is Reformulated Gas (RFG) which used to mean it had MTBE in it, and sometimes up to 10% ethanol (the cheap gas).

But with the bad press about MTBE getting into water (well what do you think happens when idiots dump gas?) and the Bush administration push to embrace Ethanol so that they will appear to be embracing environmental issues; now all we get here is 15% ethanol blends.

The problem here is that Ethanol is hygroscopic (absorbs water) that combined with humid weather and the vapor recovery pumps they forced gas stations to switch to , you wind up sucking moisture out of the air until the gasoline becomes saturated and soon water is still absorbed, but cannot be dissolved in the gas.

Adding more alcohol , whether methanol, ethanol, or isopropyl does nothing to solve the problem; you just wind up with water in your gas.

This is the second time in six months that it has caused me problems.

This time, suddenly my Check engine light began flashing rapidly, then after thirty seconds, it came on steady. Not only did my truck run like crap (no power whatsoever) but it also sounded like a blown engine (vacum leak with air rushing in) . I ran the OBD II scanner and it came back with "Cylinder 1 misfire in excess of 20 times, Excess fuel in exhaust. Fuel injector cylinder 1 disabled, intake and exhaust valves cylinder 1 locked in open position." It would have to be cylinder 1, all the way to the back and unless you pull the intake manifold virtually impossible to remove the plugs (One of those ford better ideas, two plugs per cylinder and both impossible to access). I got them out and cleaned them with some effort and contortionism and a couple special tools. Drained some water out of my tank, and cleared the trouble code so that the computer would release my valves and turn the fuel injector back on.

Then I went and got some Berrymans Chemtool and Marvel Mystery Oil and added them to get rid of the rest of the water, lubricate the valves and top of the cylinder and boost octane a bit.

Like I said, I hate reformulated gas.

[jamaicaman]

Dude, that sucks. Im glad im not driving yet, and that I don't live in Dallas.

-Joe

[Pete_C]

The really bad thing is that because it takes more energy to grow corn, get it to a refiner, ferment ,and distill the alchohol than the energy contained in the ethanol produced, it contributes to the gasoline shortage. If we were to ban ethanol from gas, we would within a year have 20-25% more gas available , no more shortage and no high prices.

I wonder if this was the true intent of the Bush administration when they moved to eliminate other additives designed to lower engine emissions (which it does very poorly compared to other additives) and pressure distributors to switch to high ethanol blends instead.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=100...id=aSVm3V6ipm8I

Seems Bloomberg came to a similar conclusion.

Bush should have known better. In a capital city that is full of shameless political scams, ethanol is perhaps the most egregious.

Growing and harvesting the corn, and heating and reheating the fermented corn to produce ethanol of a high enough quality to replace some of the gasoline in your car requires an enormous amount of energy.

...it takes 29 percent more energy to make ethanol from corn than is contained in the ethanol itself.

Cars emit more air pollution when they run on gasoline containing ethanol than they do when running on gasoline alone. Our environment would be greener if we stopped relying on ethanol.

Let's summarize the economics this way. Exxon Mobil Corp. had $36 billion in net income last year. If an alternative fuel source could be developed that would compete for that business, the potential rewards would be enormous. There would be a race to get there first, and firms would be lining up to do ethanol research. We wouldn't need a subsidy.

[JDoors]

I thought the MTBE was getting into the environment the same way lead had done before: via exhaust emissions. Not from dumping (how common is that anyway?).

I didn't know anyone had hiked the percentage to fifteen, hasn't happened in the Chicago area yet and they're BIG fans of ethanol here (we've had 10% for, I'd have to guess, ten years or so).

You'd think with all the research that went into finalizing 10% as the best compromise they'd know what to do before they increased the amount to 15% (whatever additive is needed to keep the water at bay).

There's always that stuff we MidWesterner's add in Winter to prevent water in the fuel from freezing (probably just a can of ethanol for all I know! ).

[garmanma]

There's always that stuff we MidWesterner's add in Winter to prevent water in the fuel from freezing (probably just a can of ethanol for all I know! ).

It's methanol, basically. They probably don't add it in down south, just like they blend in butane in propane for home heating, because the climate allows. They add ethanol to the gas in Ohio also. I actually find my mileage improves in the winter time

Mark

[Honda_Boy]

No ethanol around here. Many of the cars can't use it anyway. I know mine can't. Regular gas messes mine up. Premium for the B16A2.

I remember hangin out with my friend between classes and we left to get something to eat (which we often did), I was thumbin through his owners manual (2007 Nissan Altima 2.5S with Convenience Package) and it had in big bold letters Do not use e85 in this vehicle. or something like that.

There are very few flex fuel cars here.

As for reformulated gas. I doubt they have it here. I bet they don't do that to premium anyway so I don't have to worry about anything even if they start doing ethanol mixtures.

[Bubba Bob]

Im surprised E15/E10 is being used that far south. You should try adding some Acetone into the tank. Help vaporize that fuel a bit better.

[blim]

Adding acetone to a cars engine?? Is that safe?

Nail Polish Remover (acetone) is the best solvent for masking tape residue on windows, caulk on hands, anything "sticky and plasticky" and I'd be afraid of any plastic or rubber gasket/washer/connector/hose--thingies, etc corroding from the acetone.

Liz

[JDoors]

... Do not use e85 in this vehicle. or something like that. ...

E85 isn't necessarily what's being discussed here. That fuel requires special parts for the fuel system and recalibration of the computer, the vast majority of cars are not equipped to use it. It's also mostly a MidWestern phenomena (we have corn, and plenty of it!).

For air pollution reasons most urban areas have had 10% ethanol fuel for some time (naysayers claim it pollutes MORE, not less, though they may be specifically talking about 100% ethanol). Any car less than ten years old or so can use "up to" 10% ethanol without any problems, they've replaced any parts that might be sensitive to ethanol (it's a better solvent than gasoline so may degrade hoses and seals if they're not made to withstand it).

It's in all grades so you'd be using it too if you lived in an urban area or other location with high pollution (they'd just jack up whatever octane booster they're currently using to get your octane back up to spec). My county was exempt for the longest time because we were considered rural, but no longer (even though they had 10% ethanol for as long as I remember, probably for some other reason, but it wasn't "mandatory" until recently).

[papa]

Adding acetone to a cars engine?? Is that safe?

Nail Polish Remover (acetone) is the best solvent for masking tape residue on windows, caulk on hands, anything "sticky and plasticky" and I'd be afraid of any plastic or rubber gasket/washer/connector/hose--thingies, etc corroding from the acetone.

Liz

Liz is right! I would be darn careful putting exotic additives in my fuel tank. Some may do more damage than good. I have seen many items that will melt normal rubber and plastic parts found on and in todays engines.

Papa

[Bubba Bob]

Acetone IS safe to use. I did quite a bit of research on the issue after hearing it for the first time. The worst that could happen is it ruining the filler neck going to your gas tank. To solve that simply put in the acetone, then fill your tank with gas. This washes the acetone down.

A common mixture is 2-4oz per 10 gallons.

[JDoors]

I'm not entirely against additives as a temporary solution to a problem (say, radiator stop-leak until you can get it repaired, or an oil additive to get you by until you can get some engine work done), but if acetone was a beneficial and economical additive for gasoline, it'd already be in there.

[bozodog]

Liz is right! I would be darn careful putting exotic additives in my fuel tank. Some may do more damage than good. I have seen many items that will melt normal rubber and plastic parts found on and in todays engines.

Boy, did I find that out the hard way. I used "Sta-bil" to treat all my garden engines one fall and had a goopy, sticky mess in the spring. A couple rubber gas lines turned into tar and I had to rebuild one carb due to the rubber components breaking down.

[Bubba Bob]

I'm not entirely against additives as a temporary solution to a problem (say, radiator stop-leak until you can get it repaired, or an oil additive to get you by until you can get some engine work done), but if acetone was a beneficial and economical additive for gasoline, it'd already be in there.

Jdoors, acetone is already in your gas, thsi just increases the level.

[cherokeechief]

one of the problems with E85 is that older ve3hicles are not programed to compute the differance in the fuel management.

never run E85 in vehicles that are not set up for the duel fuels. the '07s, well some of them have notations about using E85. there are only a few that have a program to reconize the E85, but the bad part is that the E85 is not as efficiant as the 90/10 or gas w/o ethenol.

on the vehicles that can run E85 there was noticable feul milage drop, and power drop.

and you ended up burning more fuel running E85. another unknown note is that running E85 produces more carbon dioxide.

sorry to hear about the mess with you using the E85 Pete.

[Bubba Bob]

another unknown note is that running E85 produces more carbon dioxide.

I saw a commercial today that stated E85 cut "greenhouse gas" emmisions by 32 percent. That really pissed me off. Simple E85 propoganda. Should be prosecuted for lieing.

[Pete_C]

E85 is 85% ethanol.

What we have here is RFG, 15% ethanol to reduce emissions supposedly.

As such if you add methanol or Isopropyl alchohol (liquid heat , gas line antifreeze) it just increases the alcohol content to much.

Berrymans B12 ChemTool is actually an Acetone Toluene blend which helps , that is what I wind up using when it gets bad .

But I still wish they would go back to no more than 10% alcohol. Never had problems with that.

MTBE, or Methyl Tertiary Butyl Ether is totally consumed in the combustion process and environmental contamination came primarily from leaking tanks, spillage when folks overtopped the tank, evaporation during filling and from improperly vented tanks, and of course folks draining a bit out of the bottom to get rid of water and clean out (back flush ) the fuel filter.

Whenever I backflush, I use a catch pan and then funnel it into a gas can. If there is water, I use a multi step process and an old gravy /fat seperator to seperate off the water. Then I use it in the mower. No waste at these prices.