Bush's Resume!

[X-Cannon]

For anyone that wants to know the truth.

-------------------------

Hello. My name is George Bush and I'm running for President. Please consider my accomplishments as set forth in the following resume

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EARLY RECORD

POLITICAL RECORD (DOMESTIC)

* I ran for President in 2000. My campaign was destined to be a

miserable failure until I used a whispering campaign of lies[3] to destroy genuine war hero and fellow Republican John McCain, claiming he had fathered an illegitimate negro child and was emotionally unstable due to his torture as a POW in Vietnam[4].

* In July 2001 I appointed Harvey Pitt to be the chairman of a "kinder, gentler SEC"[5] to ease regulation of foreign businesses. The results have been the largest and most miserable failures of corporate accountability in modern corporate history: Enron[6], Worldcom[7], and now Fannie Mae[8].

* I am the first President to unconstitutionally restrict my opponents' First Amendment rights[9] by allowing my supporters to remain at the venue[10] while restricting my detractors to "free speech zones[11]," fenced-off areas up to half mile away[12] from the media, the audience, and especially myself.

* I've communicated less with the American people than any other president in the history of televised news, holding only one White House press conference every 3.25 months[13], compared to my father's 1.6 per month.

* To prevent activist judges from rewriting the constitution to serve an agenda that Congress would never approve, I attempted to rewrite the constitution to serve an agenda they never came close to approving. My campaign for the Federal Marriage Amendment[14] was a miserable failure: it failed to pass either house of congress. In the Senate the cloture call to end debate yielded only 48 votes, not the 67 required to pass the Senate, not the 60 votes required for cloture, not even the 50 votes of a simple majority.

* My 2004 budget set the record for the largest deficit in history[15]: either $477 billion or $521 billion (CBO[16] and OMB[17] numbers, respectively).

* The value of the dollar has collapsed 30% during my term[18].

* Nearly every major economic indicator has deteriorated since I took office in January 2001. Real GDP growth during my term is the lowest of any presidential term in recent memory. Total non-farm employment has contracted and the unemployment rate has increased. Bankruptcies are up sharply, as is our dependence on foreign capital to finance an exploding current account deficit. All three major stock indexes are lower now than at the time of my inauguration. The percentage of Americans in poverty has increased, real median income has declined, and income inequality has grown.[19]

POLITICAL EXPERIENCE (FOREIGN)

* As president I ignored Clinton's warnings about Al Qaeda, mentioning that organization only once in public statements on national security between January 20, 2001 and September 10, 2001. In the same time period I mentioned Saddam Hussein 104 times and missile defense 101 times[20].

* On August 6, 2001 I received a briefing titled "Bin Laden Determined to Attack Inside the United States[21]" which warned that "the FBI indicates patterns of suspicious activity in the United States consistent with preparations for hijacking[22]." For one month I dealt with numerous other issues[23] until the unfolding of the most successful terrorist attack in US history on September 11, 2001.

* With broad international approval I temporarily disrupted the Taliban government, which has now re-emerged to control much of southern Afghanistan after I abandoned this campaign for Iraq.

* I campaigned strongly for war in Iraq. I claimed that:

* Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction (none have been found).

* Iraq had ties to Al Qaeda[24] (Iraq opposed Al Qaeda and successfully kept their operatives out of the country before September 2001[25]. The strongest claim to support a connection came from Czech intelligence services[26] and is now retracted[27]. The 9/11 commission "did not believe that such a meeting occurred"[28].)

* Iraq would give their weapons of mass destruction to terrorists[24] (A secular Saddam would never give his "ace card" to religious elements he opposed throughout his life and could not control[29])

* The war would be "self-financing" through oil sales[30] ($200 billion total has been allocated[31], and $138 billion has already been spent[32] with more to follow).

* The war would end quickly, with troop deployments down to 30,000 troops by Autumn 2003[30] (March 2004 troop deployment: 114,000 US plus 23,000 Coalition troops in Iraq; 26,000 US and Coalition logistical support troops in Kuwait[33]).

* Americans would be greeted as liberators (Public perception of Americans as liberators dropped from 43% at the time of invasion[34] to 2% after Abu Ghraib[35]).

* By invading I would make it more difficult for terrorists to obtain Weapons of Mass Destruction (The only WMD 'discovered' in Iraq was successfully obtained by terrorists and used against Americans[36]. As a result of the invasion, nuclear equipment and materials in Iraq formerly monitored by the IAEA has disappeared and may have fallen into the hands of terrorists or rogue countries[37]. The results have been overwhelmingly negative for U.S. interests.[38])

* I punished those who spoke unwelcome truth:

* I sent Joseph Wilson[39] to Africa in February 2002 to investigate claims that Iraq had attempted to purchase uranium, where Wilson determined that those claims were based on forged documents[40]. Despite his report I continued to make public Iraq/Nigeria statements as late as January 2003[41]. When Wilson publicly contradicted me[42], one of my senior officials exposed the CIA cover of Wilson's wife, Valerie Plame[43], in an article written by Robert Novak and printed in the New York Times on July 14 2003[44]. No one is sure which senior White House official leaked the order or who was aware, but the fact that I hired James Sharp

in June 2004 to represent me[45] as a personal criminal defense

attorney is significant when you consider that there is no attorney-client privilege between a president and a White House counsel that allows the counsel to withhold information from a Federal grand jury.[46]

* I fired Lawrence Lindsey[47] as my economics advisor in early

December 2002 for claiming that the Iraq War would cost between $100 and $200 billion[48]. ($138 billion has been spent and $200 billion has been budgeted... so far)

* I fired Jay Garner as US Administrator of Iraq in March 2004[49] for calling for immediate elections instead of allowing American companies to privatize government-owned assets. (American privatization and lack of a legitimate Iraqi government is one of the major reasons for unrest in Iraq.)

* I made US Army Chief of Staff General Eric Shinseki[50] a lame duck in June 2003, defying precedent and announcing his successor 14 months in advance of his retirement[51] after he announced that "several hundred thousand troops would be needed in postwar Iraq"[52].

* I threatened to have Medicare analyst Richard Foster fired if he replied to Congressional requests[53] and reported that the Medicare Prescription Drug Bill[54] would cost $551 billion, $156 billion over the White House's favored estimate of $395 billion[55].

* After the Iraq Health Ministry released figures showing that US and Coalition forces killed twice as many Iraqis as the Insurgents the Iraqis are supposedly being protected from[56], I acted decisively by ordering the Iraq Health Ministry to not release any more figures[57].

* I rewarded those who spoke welcome lies, paying Ahmed Chalabi[58] and the Iraqi National Congress[59] $340,000 per month for their false intelligence gathered about Iraq[60]. Although Chalabi and the INC had been dropped from the CIA payroll in 1996 for being an unreliable source and also dismissed by the DIA (Defense Intelligence Agency[61]) for the same reason, I continued to use Chalabi and the INC to support claims of WMDs in Iraq. Even after their information proved false and no weapons were found[62] I remained so close to Chalabi that he sat with Laura Bush as my "Special Guest" during my September 2003 State of the Union address[63]. I continued to pay the INC regularly until May 2004[64], when allegations surfaced that Chalabi had passed classified American intelligence to Iran.

* I put tremendous pressure on the CIA to come up with information to support policies that have already been adopted[65] (as determined by the Senate Report of Pre-war Intelligence on Iraq[66]). When the CIA and DIA refused to verify intelligence items I wanted to believe, Donald Rumsfeld and I created the Office of Special Plans[67]. This independent department within the Pentagon was designed to bypass the CIA and feed the discredited and unreliable information I wanted to believe was true[68] back into the intelligence stream in order to support conclusions that the CIA and DIA could not. The OSP took much of the discredited information from Chalabi and the Iraqi National Congress.

* I opposed the creation of the Department of Homeland Security for nine months, before turning around to take credit for its creation[69].

* I opposed the creation of an independent 9/11 panel[70]. After being forced to accept the commission, I gave it only $12 million in funding to do its work (compared to $50 million combined for Whitewater and the Monica Lewinsky investigation[71]) before turning around to take credit for its creation.

* My war against Al Qaeda has been a miserable failure:

* The International Institute for Strategic Studies[72]' most

conservative estimate (May 25, 2004) is that the occupation of Iraq has helped Al Qaeda recruit 18,000 operatives in more than 60 countries[73].

* The Jaffee Center for Strategic Studies at Tel Aviv University[74] has found that The war in Iraq did not damage international terror groups, but instead distracted the United States from confronting other hotbeds of Islamic militancy and actually "created momentum" for many terrorists. On a strategic level as well as an operational level, the war in Iraq is hurting the war on international terrorism.[75]

* By my State Department's own estimates, world terror attacks are now at their highest level in 20 years, up 36% since 2001[76].

* I have held 660 prisoners in Guantanamo, Cuba[77] for over two years without trial or formal charge. My prisoners, several of whom were between the ages of 13 and 16, have never been formally charged. They are kept in steel cages, subjected to ongoing torture, and denied access to legal counsel in opposition to Supreme Court rulings (Rasul v. Bush[78]). These prisoners are "the worst of the worst", "hard core, well trained terrorists[79]" and their guilt is beyond doubt, which is why I've set 87 of them free without explanation or apology[80].

* In the past year I claim to have trained 100,000 Iraqi police forces, but only 8,169 of those have passed the required 8-week training course[81]. Another 46,176 are listed as "untrained".

* My Secretary of Defense is the first in US history to have

acknowledged ordering an intentional violation of the Geneva Conventions[82], in which Abu Ghraib prisoners were held "off the books" and hidden from the Red Cross. When this order was made public I refused to discipline him in any way, instead complimenting him on his job performance[83].

* After being informed of abuses at Abu Ghraib on January 16[84] (first reported on January 13[85]) which included "Threatening male detainees with rape[86]" and "Sodomizing a detainee with a chemical light and perhaps a broom stick[86]" I made "freedom from torture chambers and rape rooms[87]" a centerpiece in my speeches until April 29 when the story finally broke on 60 Minutes II.

* My administration is the first since the Civil War to imprison US

Citizens (Jose Padilla) as "enemy combatants" without charges, trial, or access to legal counsel. In a 5-4 decision (Rumsfeld v. Padilla[88]) the Supreme Court dodged the opportunity to rule on the legality, ruling that the case had been improperly filed.

* My administration broke new legal ground by using material witness warrants to give effective life sentences to US citizens[89] without charge, trial, access to legal counsel, or even plans to prosecute[90].

* My justice department was the first in US history to attempt to

enforce federal regulations while refusing to disclose what those regulations are[91].

* My legal war against terror has been a miserable failure: I have detained more than 5,000 people[92] on suspicion of terrorist ties, some of whom have been held without charge or without access to a lawyer. I have successfully convicted zero[93].

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FOOTNOTES:

[1] http://monkeydyne.com/bushresume/forward.html

[2] http://www.monkeydyne.com/bushresume/early.html

[3] http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial...smear_campaign/

[4] http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2004/07/06/mccain/

[5]

http://securities.stanford.edu/news-archiv...ne16_Knauer.htm

[6] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enron

[7] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worldcom

[8] http://money.cnn.com/2004/09/30/news/fortu...annie_doj.reut/

[9] http://www.aclu.org/FreeSpeech/FreeSpeech.cfm?ID=13693&c=86

[10] http://www.amconmag.com/12_15_03/feature.html

[11] http://reason.com/links/links020504.shtml

[12] http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/news.aspx?id=11796

[13] http://www.towson.edu/polsci/whc/readings/...sConference.pdf

[14] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Marriage_Amendment

[15] http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=148

[16] http://www.cbo.gov/showdoc.cfm?index=5003&sequence=0

[17] http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/fy200...ts/hist01z3.xls

[18] http://www.monkeydyne.com/bushresume/dollar_collapse.jpg

[19] http://www.openlettertothepresident.org/

[20] http://www.snopes.com/politics/bush/numbers.asp

[21]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/08/...ript/index.html

[22] http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3617289.stm

[23]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?p...r10¬Found=true

[24] http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/20...20030319-1.html

[25] http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/terrornet/12.htm

[26] http://www.rushonline.com/visitors/linkconfirmed.htm

[27] http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20021020-092811-8185r

[28] http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/06/16/911.commission/

[29] http://www.cato.org/dailys/03-05-03.html

[30] http://www.cato.org/dailys/04-21-04.html

[31] http://factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=253

[32] http://costofwar.com/

[33] http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/iraq_orbat.htm

[34] http://www.cato.org/dailys/05-18-04.html

[35] http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5223494/

[36] http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3722255.stm

[37]

http://www.reuters.com/printerFriendlyPopu...storyID=6469984

[38] http://www.sensibleforeignpolicy.net/letter.html

[39] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_wilson

[40] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellowcake_Forgery

[41] http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/20...0030128-19.html

[42] http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0706-02.htm

[43] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valerie_Plame

[44]

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/robertn...n20030714.shtml

[45]

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Repor...404ramares.html

[46] http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20040604.html

[47] http://www.townhall.com/columnists/robertn...n20040103.shtml

[48]

http://www.npr.org/programs/atc/transcript...226.ludden.html

[49] http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1171880,00.html

[50] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Shinseki

[51]

http://www.intellivu.com/main.asp?brand=&f...novak050103.htm

[52]

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issue...tagoncontra.htm

[53] http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A6339-2004Mar18

[54] http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/20...20031208-2.html

[55]

http://www.kaisernetwork.org/daily_reports...cfm?DR_ID=22867

[56] http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/9753603.htm

[57] http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/Iraq/200.../640763-ap.html

[58] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Chalabi

[59] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_National_Congress

[60] http://www.cato.org/dailys/05-27-04-2.html

[61] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_Intelligence_Agency

[62]

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/03/...l?oneclick=true

[63] http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/20...20040120-5.html

[64] http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/20/chalabi.raid/

[65]

http://www.prospect.org/print-friendly/pri...dreyfuss-r.html

[66]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senate_Report...s_of_the_Report

[67] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Special_Plans

[68] http://www.cato.org/dailys/07-12-04-2.html

[69]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/09/19/...ain522605.shtml

[70]

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/legislative/...Fs/hr4628-h.pdf

[71] http://www.washingtonfreepress.org/67/admi...tionsFacade.htm

[72] http://www.iiss.org/

[73] http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3746205.stm

[74] http://www.tau.ac.il/jcss/

[75]

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/wo...world-headlines

[76]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...-2004May16.html

[77]

http://www.pollycyber.com/courses/G245-F03...Greenhouse.html

[78] http://www.oyez.org/oyez/resource/case/1706/resources

[79] http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2004/01/09/usdom6917.htm

[80] http://www.defenselink.mil/releases/2004/n...40129-0934.html

[81]

http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsPackageArticl...90914§ion=news

[82]

http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/politic...s_June1604.html

[83] http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3699453.stm

[84] http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040524fa_fact

[85] http://www.defendamerica.mil/articles/may2004/a050704h.html

[86]

http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/libra.../800-mp-bde.htm

[87] http://slate.msn.com/id/2100014/

[88] http://www.oyez.org/oyez/resource/case/1730/

[89] http://www.bluetriangle.org/old/id74.htm

[90]

http://secure.cppax.org/Iraq/background/ma...ss11-24-02.html

[91] http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/09/06/airline.id.ap/

[92] http://judiciary.senate.gov/testimony.cfm?id=128&wit_id=83

[93] http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20041004&s=cole

P.S. I think you know how I feel about Bush.

[martymas]

hi i liked your post.

the man is a danger to mankind.

i just watched the news and bush has been defeated on the stem cell issue

it is now law .

im mystified as an outsider .

as to why if people are not happy with bush

why did he make 2 terms as a president

some one must have put him there.

he didnt climb over there backs he got elected.

the usa needs proportitinal voting

as it is the right wing has been in power for decades .

2 party sys .

strangly enough the usa and uk are the only western countrys in the world who vote first past the post.

and they are war mongers .

yes your article is a good one .arnt you frightened the cia or the fbi might read it.

and smack your hand.

marty

[jcl]

the usa needs proportitinal voting

The US has proportional voting. The distribution of seats in House is approximately proportional to population and the size of the Senate is proportional to the number of states.

as it is the right wing has been in power for decades .

Three years, actually. A defection in '01 put the Senate at 50-49-1 for a year and a half. Prior to that there was a period of only about six months when both branches were controlled by the GOP. The last time before that was the 83rd Congress in 1953-5.

Edited May 26, 2005 by jcl

[blim]

X Cannon, boy did I learn a lot from your post! I am against war for any reason and am especially ashamed of our country's actions against Iraq. I literally wept when GW won a second term, and I've never been into politics. The only comfort I got was realizing that "he got us into this mess, he should be responsible for getting us out of this mess". ....But he isn't....

I grieve for our children, who will be the generation to suffer his concequenses

Liz

[Vile_DR]

I don't have really much to say, and i am not for anyone being president because that doesn't truely denominate democracy...a single head of the US...even though we do have checks and balances in place to remove the dictatorship. I think you guys are missing the point though...he is just the name on top of all the actions...he can push one direction or they other, but even war is based on majority voting. Not necessarily on the streets or in the news, but if we really didn't want the actions in Iraq now, or the actions years ago when we were first there, it would have never happened. Look at the different governments around the world...we are the largest country over there defend people who could give a shizzz. That is what upset's me. It isn't the fact that the right guy or the wrong guy was hired for the job, but the fact we are fighting someone elses problems and taking the lives of our future. The fact stands that i am only 23years of age and i might not know anyting about politics, actions, war, peace, presidents, religion, or sex, but i am for damn sure against anyone being killed over their beliefs. Well it turns out that i have more to say that I thought, and i could probably unravel a few more paragraphs, but i hope you guys understand what i am saying...it isn't about who the, quote, Leader is, but about the people who support him, support themselves, and support others, we are the ones who started it, and we will be the ones who stop it...as people of this world

[blim]

Vile, you bring up some excellent points, especially this:

"we are the largest country over there defend people who could give a shizzz. That is what upset's me. It isn't the fact that the right guy or the wrong guy was hired for the job, but the fact we are fighting someone elses problems and taking the lives of our future."

Imagine the good this country could do if the time, money and effort spent on "bullying and poking our noses in other countries business" were to be spent on Humanitarian efforts. Billions upon billions of dollars were spent on the "war on terror" (which in itself is like spanking a child for hitting.....there has to be a better way), yet our government sent a mere pittance to the tsunami effort--and that's only after the US was pressured into increasing their original amount.

Liz

[macmarauder]

yes this is our vietnam. most americans really don't know why we are over there fighting and the people who live there don't want us there. the whole thing was just an excuse to get sadam and get to the oil. some how every thing always involves money.

[jcl]

Imagine the good this country could do if the time, money and effort spent on "bullying and poking our noses in other countries business" were to be spent on Humanitarian efforts.

The world isn't that simple. Humanitarian aid is frequently misused on the receiving end and sheer size of the bureaucracy required to administer a muti-hundred-billion dollar aid system would virtually guaranty that the money would be mishandled. Not to mention that no one really has a clue about how to provide large-scale relief. It is not unheard of for relief operations to make things worse.

(One possible example of the last point is a theory that food and medical aid to Africa has actually triggered widespread famine by providing enough resources for the population to grow beyond the carrying capacity of the environment. Increasing aid results more population growth rather than improved health, decreasing aid results in starvation and disease. Catch-22. It's been suggested that rapid development (e.g., widespread use of modern agriculture and engineered crops) would be more useful than direct aid, but it would take time to get the infrastructure in place and it's possible that the population simply couldn't be supported even under ideal conditions. There are also political issues that would need to be overcome. There may be no adequate solution to the problem.)

There are also a great many major humanitarian disasters that simply can't be averted peacefully. For example, it's not obvious how the genocide in Sudan can be stopped without the gov't being overthrown. Likewise the endless famine in North Korea is unlikely to end without at least a collapse of the government. Generally speaking foreign aid doesn't help when humans are responsible for an on-going humanitarian disaster.

Billions upon billions of dollars were spent on the "war on terror" (which in itself is like spanking a child for hitting.....there has to be a better way), yet our government sent a mere pittance to the tsunami effort--and that's only after the US was pressured into increasing their original amount.

No one was really pressured as I recall. Everyone initially pledged a relatively small amount. Then the US, EU, Japan, and Australia got into a battle for prestige that didn't stop until the tsunami finally fell out of the nightly news. The result I think was the US gov't pledging something close to a billion dollars (with the other three in the same neighborhood). And private donations in the US have now exceeded a billion dollars.

Edited May 27, 2005 by jcl

[robroy]

not only do I agree with everything jcl said but I would also add that those we try to aid still hate us even as they are eating the food, wearing the clothes and sleeping on the bedding we send to them. The hate America because we are able to give aid.

[jcl]

not only do I agree with everything jcl said but I would also add that those we try to aid still hate us even as they are eating the food, wearing the clothes and sleeping on the bedding we send to them. The hate America because we are able to give aid.

Right. Among the "political issues" I was considering was the rather high probability that there's no way to provide useful foreign aid as long the majority of the third-world nations exist in their current form. They're politically, economically, and socially unable to make use of it, usually through no fault of people in need. Vast amounts of aid are diverted to politicians for their own gain or to make war on their enemies (foreign and domestic), distribution of what gets through is hampered by the lack of infrastructure and general chaos that's unfortunately not uncommon, and there are sometimes nigh insurmountable cultural barriers that prevent the aid from being accepted.

As far as anti-American/European/Western sentiments interfering with aid, one of the strangest and most annoying examples is the surge of polio in Nigeria that's resulted from local clerics telling people the polio vaccine was part of the plot to kill or sterilize them. There have been similar problems in other parts of Africa, including resistence to AIDS treatments. There's really not much you do for people who are convinced that you're trying to kill them.

[martymas]

the patriosm .

is seeping through.in stead of logic .

when ever the usa has gone into countrys

do they think of the aftermath of all thoise people killed as some on e says for oil.

if the usa had thought sadam was a threat

would they have done it at no cost .

when there are wars some one always benifits .

why didnt they get rid of him at no cost .

no way. american big bizness wouldnt allow that.

when theres a buck to be made.

the vice president was involved in bizness deals 2 years before the iraq war.

but once the american press got on to him he resigned as the ceo.

which made it look as tho he didnt know what was going on.

b-----t

american big bizness control the world

and bush is only a pawn.

but times are changing.

ive seen quite a bit of flack for clinton but at least he was humanitarian.

what ever we think of him.

its a pity this post was sent to this forum

because it now devides us .

the fors and against.

the rest of us verses the americans.

and that is a pity until jcl posted

i was prepared to let the post go by but that post made me respond .

marty

[jcl]

its a pity this post was sent to this forum

because it now devides us .

the fors and against.

the rest of us verses  the americans.

and that is a pity until jcl posted

i was prepared to let the post go by but that post made me respond .

Actually I think we've all been remarkably restrained. No flames directed at other members, no real argument about the content of the original post, no comments that were really over the top by current standards. Not even much disagreement over emotionally charged issues.

The initial post did worry me because it would be pure flame bait in most forums, but either political opinion here is fairly uniform or the people who disagree are biting their tongues.

[blim]

Hi Marty!

We do have an interesting debate going, don't we?? I like to hope the posters here DO feel like part of a great big international family (I know I do), and we respect eachother enough to accept all opinions without feeling divided or hurting eachothers feelings. I think we can all be good natured with this topic, afterall, BT is different from the rest. You and Jcl made very, very good points which I am learning from, thank you! (and I'm writing some notes for hopefully a well thought out response!! This old lady doesn't think that quickly anymore. )

*big hug*

Liz

*waves to jcl, me thinks we were typing at the same time!

[tenmm]

Last Job Before Presidency: Governor of Texas

Elected in 1994 and again in 1998.

Current Job: President of United States of America

Elected in 2000.

Now serving a second term as President of the U.S.

The man must have done something right.

Arm chair politics,interesting debate,second guessing,no first hand information.

Please continue.

[Vile_DR]

its a pity this post was sent to this forum

because it now devides us .

the fors and against.

the rest of us verses  the americans.

and that is a pity until jcl posted

i was prepared to let the post go by but that post made me respond .

Actually I think we've all been remarkably restrained. No flames directed at other members, no real argument about the content of the original post, no comments that were really over the top by current standards. Not even much disagreement over emotionally charged issues.

The initial post did worry me because it would be pure flame bait in most forums, but either political opinion here is fairly uniform or the people who disagree are biting their tongues.

Hi Marty!

We do have an interesting debate going, don't we??  I like to hope the posters here DO feel like part of a great big international family (I know I do), and we respect eachother enough to accept all opinions without feeling divided or hurting eachothers feelings. I think we can all be good natured with this topic, afterall, BT is different from the rest. You and Jcl made very, very good points which I am learning from, thank you! (and I'm writing some notes for hopefully a well thought out response!! This old lady doesn't think that quickly anymore.  )

*big hug*

Liz

Of all the things each one of us could add to the table, and our own representations of what we knows, read, heard, said, and saw doesn't necessarily divide us as anyone of us could metion, but it does give, strangely enough, HOPE COMFORT TRUST and the knowing fact that EACH ONE OF US WILL LISTEN TO THE NEXT WITH RESPECT. No discussion, debate, or arguement should ever involve direct attacks, or lack of reasonable understanding. We might not all look the same direction, but it shows true power that we as individuals of any age, differences in language and learnings, don't need to place judgement upon one another for saying their part or even "biting their tounge." There is more out there than a simple rant or a policatical "party." Only we as a collective can stop the madness, but the trick is us as individuals to be able to admire that.

I believe that everyone has some type of emotional bonding to their views on life, politics and their cultural way, but don't need to hear that their view point is completely wrong. If someone is lacking the information, or the experience in a certain area, the best solution is patience. Each level of development in a person determines there level of envolvement, so person attacks, disrespect, and ignorace all fuels the fire...I really think we don't have that on this forum...We all in one way or another (I hope), want to help the next person until, even still in disagreement, can understand what the conversation really is about, instead of the attacks given.

Sry about my little mid-conversation rant, i just don't want to read about arguments between individuals who share more similar views that any of the rest.

Back to the Topic:

As an Individual in a society that is based on popular opinion, our own views actually have lots of influence on the next person if the explaination is there. In the event of electing a President, Senator, or Any type of polical official, there is a vote a collective vote, but who really makes those numbers. We do...separatists, lobbyist, independants, republicans, decomcrates, male female, old young, small and tall...We either stand up for what we want, or we fall together as a group, country or planet. We the USA takes matters into their own hands to solve someone else's problem, the USA (unfortunately that includes every citizen of the US) creates a bigger one by segregating itself locally. I completely understand about helping a Globally changing event like the Tsunami, but why not start with the globally changing INTERNAL EVENTS...in any country...not just the US...ever country is listed as a separate country and should act like it in matters of politics and WAR...i know some of this is skewed from what i am actually trying to say, but with my better judgement, i won't support a war that my father has started...it just does not make sense when he can't put milk on the table but will start a fight with his neighbor...

Hope that wasn't to much...Everyone Enjoy the day...and remember, Friends dont' always have to agree, but they DO RESPECT EACH OTHERS OWN.

[handplane]

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