Taking The Step

[Matt]

Hello all! I have fianlly downloaded Ubuntu linux, and I am eager to load it onto my machine. But before I do that, I would like some of my worries to be out of the way. Any help in the following matters would be greatly appreciated.

I am currently running WinXP (Home Ed) and I want to keep this, and all my files intact. So, I guess I have to partition. I have never partitioned before, and this idea seems a little scary. I don't want to have to buy PartitionMagic, or anything like that. I am under the impressiong that Ubuntu comes with a tool that will partition the HDD for you. Am I correct? While looking through the installation screenshots, I noticed that at the partition step, it gives the option to let it partition the HDD for me, or for me to do it myself. Which one of these steps an I going to wish to take? I think that someone told me that if I let it partition for me, it will destroy my data. I don't want that at all. Is that statement correct? Also, like I said, I have never partitioned a harddrive before. If I have to take the option to partition myself, how would I go about doing that? I know this is a big question, that could have many different answers, but if anyone has a nice walkthrough or something, that would be great.

After I get the partition set up, will I just be able to continue with the install? Are there more steps to this that I am missing? Once again, I need to be able to keep Windows on the machine, and all the files intact. I also need it to have room on the Windows side to be able to continue to use Windows and create files and whatever (I'm not even sure if that is an issue).

Finally, once I have Ubuntu loaded onto my computer, I need to be able to choose which OS to load upon boot up. I intend to keep Windows as my primary OS, only because this is a family computer, and I will be the only one using Ubuntu. If I set this up correctly, would it be able to automatically load Windows if the user does not select which OS after a certain time limie? That would be nice so that the rest of my family doesn't have to worry about this.

I know that I am asking for a lot of information, but any help that anyone can provide would be greatly appreciated. I hope to have Linux up and running very soon.

Matt

[shanenin]

I was under the impression that ubuntu offers ntfs resizing, but .... I just booted my ubunutu disk and I did not see any options to resize my windows partition. I will try and see what I can find out.

just for fun, boot your ubuntu cd, just to see what it it like. You may see an option to rezise you windows partition. So long as you do not choose "write partition table" you will not make any changes to your sytem.

[shanenin]

I just checked, knoppix does do ntfs resizing, using the program qtparted . first off make sure you defragment you windows drive, and backup any data you do not want to lose. Even a very polished prgram like partition magic can cause corruption doing a major task like resizing. now to the resizing

boot knoppix, open up a terminal, change to root with the su command, then enter the command qtparted. from there it is pretty self explainitory. just click on your partition you want to resize, then under operations choose resize. It will ask you the new size you want it. If it gives you the option, choose leave new space as unallocated(free space). It may not ask, it might just leave new space unallocated by default.

When you goto install ubuntu, one of the options is to install in free(unallocated) space. the installer will partition and set up everything for you. When you get to the section about installing a boot loader, choose "install on the mbr"(something similar). This will allow you to boot either windows or ubuntu.

Edited May 4, 2005 by shanenin

[hitest]

Hello all! I have fianlly downloaded Ubuntu linux, and I am eager to load it onto my machine. But before I do that, I would like some of my worries to be out of the way. Any help in the following matters would be greatly appreciated.

I am currently running WinXP (Home Ed) and I want to keep this, and all my files intact. So, I guess I have to partition. I have never partitioned before, and this idea seems a little scary. I don't want to have to buy PartitionMagic, or anything like that. I am under the impressiong that Ubuntu comes with a tool that will partition the HDD for you. Am I correct? While looking through the installation screenshots, I noticed that at the partition step, it gives the option to let it partition the HDD for me, or for me to do it myself. Which one of these steps an I going to wish to take? I think that someone told me that if I let it partition for me, it will destroy my data. I don't want that at all. Is that statement correct? Also, like I said, I have never partitioned a harddrive before. If I have to take the option to partition myself, how would I go about doing that? I know this is a big question, that could have many different answers, but if anyone has a nice walkthrough or something, that would be great.

After I get the partition set up, will I just be able to continue with the install? Are there more steps to this that I am missing? Once again, I need to be able to keep Windows on the machine, and all the files intact. I also need it to have room on the Windows side to be able to continue to use Windows and create files and whatever (I'm not even sure if that is an issue).

Finally, once I have Ubuntu loaded onto my computer, I need to be able to choose which OS to load upon boot up. I intend to keep Windows as my primary OS, only because this is a family computer, and I will be the only one using Ubuntu. If I set this up correctly, would it be able to automatically load Windows if the user does not select which OS after a certain time limie? That would be nice so that the rest of my family doesn't have to worry about this.

I know that I am asking for a lot of information, but any help that anyone can provide would be greatly appreciated. I hope to have Linux up and running very soon.

Matt

Congratulations on taking the plunge! Welcome to Linux.

[Matt]

boot knoppix, open up a terminal, change to root with the su command, then enter the command qtparted. from there it is pretty self explainitory. just click on your partition you want to resize, then under operations choose resize. It will ask you the new size you want it. If it gives you the option, choose leave new space as unallocated(free space). It may not ask, it might just leave new space unallocated by default.

Hi shanenin, thanks for the help.

I would like to ask for a little more, uh, n00bish explanation of this part though. What do you mean "open up a terminal"? I have used knoppix, but only a few times, and that is my only linux experience. heh, I also don't know what su commands are, or how to change to root with them. (I do know what root is though, yay!) You also say "just click on your partition you want to resize, then under operations choose resize. It will ask you the new size you want it. If it gives you the option, choose leave new space as unallocated(free space). It may not ask, it might just leave new space unallocated by default. "

This sounds like I already of partitioned my HDD. I ahven't, but I could just be understanding this incorrectly. Is this going to create a partition or resize an existing one? (Ive never partitioned before, so does resize == creating one?) Also, when it asks me what size I want, is there a reccomended size for this? I have a 120 gig HDD (with about 99 gigs free)

When you goto install ubuntu, one of the options is to install in free(unallocated) space. the installer will partition and set up everything for you. When you get to the section about installing a boot loader, choose "install on the mbr"(something similar). This will allow you to boot either windows or ubuntu.

So the first part of what you said means it will install on the free (empty) partition, correct? "the installer will partition and set up everything for you." - I don't understand what you mean by this, didn't the knoppix part already partition?

Thanks for the help. I haven't done anything yet, but I do look forward to.

Matt

[murtu52]

just to add to shanenin's input, while defragging, also disable virtual memory. When i was planning to install knoppix, i was told to defrag AND disable virtual memory; i'm not sure if its necessary, but its best to do it anyway for the whole resizing-partitioning....

[shanenin]

What do you mean "open up a terminal"?

open up a shell, in kde this is called konsole. This is the place you can enter commands

I also don't know what su commands are, or how to change to root with them

su means 'switch user' if you just type su without a user name it is the same as typing the command su root. These two command are the same

su
su root

Both of the above commands mean "switch user to root". Normally you will need to enter the root password, but using knoppix it does not prompt for one.

You also say "just click on your partition you want to resize, then under operations choose resize. It will ask you the new size you want it. If it gives you the option, choose leave new space as unallocated(free space). It may not ask, it might just leave new space unallocated by default. "

This sounds like I already of partitioned my HDD. I ahven't, but I could just be understanding this incorrectly. Is this going to create a partition or resize an existing one? (Ive never partitioned before, so does resize == creating one?) Also, when it asks me what size I want, is there a reccomended size for this? I have a 120 gig HDD (with about 99 gigs free)

the program qtparted will not partition your drive. It will be used only to resize your partition, make it smaller. Currently all of your drive is allocated as one ntfs partition, you have no unallocated space(well maybe 8mb). you just need to shrink you ntfs partition and leave some of your drive unallocated.

With your newly accuired unallocated space, ubuntu will be able to make partitions for itself.

[iccaros]

to add,

the command prompt is like the coammand interface in windows sometimes called a DOS prompt.

you may have to use the coammnd su -

as the - means to use the changed users enviroment. this means that as a user /sbin is not in your path. but for root /sbin is in its path. so a su by its self (or su root) will not let you run programs in sbin.. This may mean nothing in knoppix as I believe qtparted is in /usr/bin which is in your user path.

if you think of the command line as a DOS shell it may be easyer to learn..

a summery of comamnds to dos commands.

su -- menas switch user or in old UNIX days Super User.. no DOS commnd like it

cd = cd in DOS

rm = del

cp = copy

clear = cls

unlike dos that run what ever is in the folder you are in.. Unix run only things in your path.. some programs need you to add ./ to run them if they are in your current folder but not your path.

also the unix file system is a tree, unlike DOS that is made up of trees under drives. so in dos you have C: where c: by its self is the root of C.. so c:\windows ..has windows off the C root.. and so on C:\windows\dll and so on

on Unix systems there is one root and insted of a drive letter (as there are no drives) its /

so /sbin is like C:\sbin.. a sa matter of fact you can have a folder names C:.. I do sometimes for people.. I have a /mnt/C:

where I mount the Windows C:

now you will also notice that UNIX uses / and not \

if you remember from C++ the \mean ignore the follwing as what it is and use it as a code. so since *NIX is based on C it woudl be diffacult to cd \sbin if the OS ignored the s and tried to give a meaning..

that is the other diffrence.

in Unix we have shells. In windows you have a command prompt or DOS shell. a DOS shell can only run program along with some very basic operations. like copy file, a menu in a batch file or delate stuff,

a UNIX shell is more like a programing language.

here is an example of a bash program (bash is a shell stands for Borne agian Shell.. ajoke off the Borne shell from the old unix days. )

#!/bin/bash
# Started as a daemon only if "daemon" parameter is present as $1
# Will analyze /dev/discs each second and if new disc is found then it's
# mounted to /mnt/...
#
# example of usage: mntall        # will mount all discs and exit
# example of usage: mntall daemon # will try to mount all discs each second
#
# Author: Tomas Matejicek <http://slax.linux-live.org>
#
# Note:   I believe that there is a better way how to mount new discs
#         automatically, but to be honest I'm very lazy to learn it.
#         It works great this way with devfs.
#

DDIR=/dev/discs
if [ ! -d $DDIR ]; then exit; fi
ls -aAb1 $DDIR | while read DISC; # list all files in directory
do
   ls -aAb1 "$DDIR/$DISC" | grep part | while read PART;
   do
      MYMOUNT="/mnt/$DISC$PART"
      if [ ! -d "$MYMOUNT" ]; then
         mkdir -p "$MYMOUNT"
         mount -t auto "$DDIR/$DISC/$PART" "$MYMOUNT" >/dev/null 2>/dev/null
         if [ "$?" != 0 ]; then rmdir "$MYMOUNT"; fi
      fi
   done
done

if [ "$1" = "daemon" ]; then
   sleep 2
   $0 daemon &
fi

you can contrast this with a DOS batch program

@echo off
CLS

echo.
echo.
echo 1 Create a factory image
echo 2 Resturn to main menu

choice /c12]/N
if errorlevel 2 goto :ToMain
if errorlevel 1 goto :CrtFac

:ToMain
echo Back to the main menu
CALL MainMenu.bat
exit

:CrtFac
echo Create Factory Back-Up
ghost\ghost.exe -clone,mode=pdump,src=1:1,dst=C:\Images\Factory.gho -Z9 -sure -cns
CALL Quit.bat

as you can see the BASH program is more like the C++ programs you have been writing.

now as to your disk..

Do you have windows on the disk now.. if so you need to resize it as the default windows install takes the entire disk.

and yes an install of linux will partition the free spaces.

and also as stated if you resize here are your steps..

backup information you do not want to loose.

kill yoru swap file in windows. (virtual memory) as this can not me defraged and may exsist at the end of the partition , it its broken your window smay not boot agian. so its safer to turn it off

defrag (maybe two or three times.. I have noticed that windows is really bad at defraging.)

turn off the system.

do not boot into windows until you are done resizing and installing linux..

when you do reboot windows re-enable the swap file.

also if you can get VMWARE. you can boo tyoru windows partition in side of linux.. this is a much better option then dual booting. this way you can use both at the same time.

[shanenin]

@MistaMatt90

I would say backup anything important and GO FOR IT. You will never feel completely confident in installing it, but after it is done you will probably feel that it was not as difficult as you thought.

Edited May 10, 2005 by shanenin

[hitest]

@MistaMatt90

I would say backup anything important and GO FOR IT. You will never feel completely confident in installing it, but after it is done you will probably feel that it was not as difficult as you thought.

I agree with shanenin. At some point you have to take the leap of faith and install Linux to your hard drive. Linux is a very stable, robust operating system. It is my OS of choice. Once you start using the penguin you will never look back.

Yep, GO FOR IT

[robroy]

go for it Matt, I did without any problems

[Matt]

One more question..

kill yoru swap file in windows. (virtual memory) as this can not me defraged and may exsist at the end of the partition , it its broken your window smay not boot agian. so its safer to turn it off

How do I do that?

[12lostcause12]

Matt, I would like to start off by saying thank you for asking these questions. I am in about the same boat as you, but have not had the time to ask them.

Next to turn off your swap file (Windows XP) right click on my computer select properties. Select the advanced tab and then in the performance box click settings (only option in that box). In the new window select the advanced tab and then in the virtual memory box click the change button. In the middle of this new window you will have three options the last of which is no paging file. The push set. It should be simelar in other versions of Windows.

I hope that this helps

Bryan Miller

[Matt]

Woah - digging up a year old thread! Anyhow, I was successfully in installing Ubuntu that time around (long time ago), but I didn't have to do the steps you outlined, 12lostcause12.

Thanks for the input however.

Matt