Shocking Event At Work.

[JDoors]

It happened at two in the afternoon and I work the night shift, so I wasn't there when it happened. When I got to work last night there was a somber mood in the air. An employee left for home in the afternoon and as she walked to her car, she was murdered.

She had an order-of-protection against the "alleged" assailant, but he snuck up on her and stabbed her to death. A terrific, sweet woman, with four young children (possibly three, details are a bit sketchy).

Murdered, on Christmas Eve, leaving four young children behind. I am almost speechless.

Almost, because aside from the shock and horror, I am extremely angry. It did not have to happen that way, but I won't explain my thoughts on that just now. Later.

[Honda_Boy]

Oh my lord, that is awful. I hope they catch the bastard and bring justice to him.

[hitest]

My God, JDoors, that is horrific!!

Those poor children!! I hope they lock up that miscreant forever!

[Besttechie]

Oh wow, that's horrible.

My prayers and condolences go to her family.

I hope justice is served and that they get the guy who did this.

B

[bearskin]

JDoors I hope you follow this story. I'm betting some fancy lawyer and a liberal judge will let this guy walk with probation.

[martymas]

jeez that is tragic

the poor family

it seemd to be common all over the world

when it

involves domestic disputes

here it is common

not murder but violence

those poor children

marty

[Pete_C]

It happens here so frequently we become used to it. But I never had it happen that close.

All to often people expect that a civilized response (restraining order) will protect them from someone who is an incurable sociopath who should be incarcerated in a mental asylum. But our society has pretty much done away with those as a cost saving measure and due to a misguided belief that the mentally ill are better off on their own and mainstreamed into society without any support.

The reality is that the person who files for the protective order is probably best qualified to make the decision , but at the same time incapable of doing so ; that they should learn to handle a weapon (firearm) and carry it for protection if they have need of a protective order. The police will not be there to protect you , and few of us can afford bodyguards; and sadly the only ones who will obey a protective order are those who do not need one to keep them from violating the law. If you are going to commit murder (probably the most extreme sociopathic violation of the law) then you are not going to care if you break a restraining order in the process.

Further , one must take into account that the holiday season is severely stressful for us all, and especially so for those who have lost their social connections and family support.

What I mean is that while everyone else is going on about their holiday plans, this guy is becoming more and more unbalanced because he does not share in their "spirit" and all the constant reminders do is amplify any imbalance and resentment he has.

This reminds me of a person who got raided by the police based on an allegation from a confidential informant. Of course , nothing was found and when they discovered their warrants weren't in order they left saying that he should not look at them or they could come back. When he hired an attorney to look into this (hey several thousand dollars of damage from kicked in doors , not to mention embarrassment of being hogtied on the front lawn in his underwear for a couple hours) the police denied ever having been there. "Must have been some other police or someone pretending to be police, it sure wasn't us. " When the Attorney finally did find out that it really was the police and it had happened, he had this advice. "You can pursue this; but you will have to move out of town immeadiately; probably out of state. Remember, they could come back and either find something or accidentally shoot you . Or you can just drop it and say, yes it must have been some really bad folks pretending to be police; I wish you could catch them, but my memory of the incident is so foggy I really could not help identify anyone."

There are times when it is best to get the hell out of dodge if you cannot reach a compromise where everyone feels that they have won even if you wind up loosing a bit to do so.

[martymas]

unfortunately pete what you posted

is true

whos fault is it, our soceity seems to be getting

more violent every day

and there is no way we can stop it

some parts of the world is worse than others

and countrys like ours and yours

are better than some places on the globe

look aroud the world and you can see

human society is getting cramped for space and

resources

so it will get worse

that is one thing ive had against open competition

dog eat dog

and we cant stop it

can we

if so how

marty

[hitest]

This reminds me of a person who got raided by the police based on an allegation from a confidential informant. Of course , nothing was found and when they discovered their warrants weren't in order they left saying that he should not look at them or they could come back. When he hired an attorney to look into this (hey several thousand dollars of damage from kicked in doors , not to mention embarrassment of being hogtied on the front lawn in his underwear for a couple hours) the police denied ever having been there. "Must have been some other police or someone pretending to be police, it sure wasn't us. " When the Attorney finally did find out that it really was the police and it had happened, he had this advice. "You can pursue this; but you will have to move out of town immeadiately; probably out of state. Remember, they could come back and either find something or accidentally shoot you . Or you can just drop it and say, yes it must have been some really bad folks pretending to be police; I wish you could catch them, but my memory of the incident is so foggy I really could not help identify anyone."

There are times when it is best to get the hell out of dodge if you cannot reach a compromise where everyone feels that they have won even if you wind up loosing a bit to do so.

Wow!! That is a frightening picture of police corruption, Pete_C!!

People in your vicinity just accept that the police can and will bang down their doors at any time? Has anyone tried to pursue this further and take it to the DA? That sounds more like something out of South America. I seem to recall that you live in Texas, Pete_C.

I hope you're having a great Christmas, man!

[bar5]

I'm so sorry to hear this. Now these children do not have a mother. It is pathetic that a person can not walk out to their vehicle with out being assaulted or murdered.

Like bearskin said, if he gets a good lawyer, and a corrupt judge, he may get off doing community service. Nothing surprises me today. The criminal gets more sympathy than the victim. They will come up with all sanity defenses that the lawyer can think of. Lawyers do not want justice, they just want to WIN. At least that is the impression that they give.

Barb

[thesidekickcat]

This is so tragic JD,

Unfortunately as others have said, that piece of paper doesn't really help protect a person at all. In fact often makes the situation worse. And another thing that isn't commonly known, that restraining order doesn't cover alot of territory. Sometimes only the boundaries of the county it was written in, and if a larger region, it probably is only good in that state. Not even to nearby ones as I found out a long time ago the hard way!!! Those RO papers are not recognized across many jurisdictions and not across state lines either!!! False security for sure!!!

So sad that our society only pretends to care about abusive home situations...if we really cared, we would make more effort to give real help, especially protection, to those who are trying to escape a terrible situation.

As for how things are spiraling down the drain, take a look at the old thread I just brought up with additional information on original story. Nearly 3 months later a ordinary good man, a replay booth official for college football has been continually harrassed and his and his family's lives threatened over a bad call he made at a stupid football game. Unbelievable that such a thing could happen in a great country such as ours...yeah right...just look at how parents act so violently toward coaches, officials, and other parents, even against their kids, even down to the peewee league level of games, they are teaching their kids that same insane way to act as the way to behave by their terrible examples.

Sorry between the two threads, I am not even able to calm down enough to make much sense, other than to say our society is way out of kilter in so many ways it is impossible to make it make sense.

Pat

God bless everyone

[robroy]

very sad indeed JDoors

Very true Barb that most lawyers are more interested in wins and money than truth and justice. I see that every time I read of another person getting away with murder, drug dealing, dui, robbery etc. There was a local councilman here several years ago who got away with killing his wife, due to the ministrations of his lawyer to get the case moved away to a friendly judge

[JDoors]

... they should learn to handle a weapon (firearm) and carry it for protection if they have need of a protective order. ...

I am an advocate of self-protection, self-preservation, but few workplaces would allow you under any circumstances to arm yourself. That's one reason you hear of so many workplace incidents, people with murderous intent know for a fact that no one at a place of work will be armed and will therefore be unable to defend themselves.

If they catch the guy (who's probably already in Mexico) at least the state of Illinois hates men. Being a man I see that working against "us" many times (lack of protection of father's rights, etc.) but in this case that hatred will work on the side of justice, they'll throw the book at him and he'll never see the light of day again.

------

Update: The suspect was found dead in a city SW of here. No other details were given.

Edited December 26, 2006 by JDoors

[irregularjoe]

JDoors I hope you follow this story. I'm betting some fancy lawyer and a liberal judge will let this guy walk with probation.

a commom misconception until you see the unforetunate souls in america's prison industry "serving" mega years for minor drug "offences".

[JDoors]

JDoors I hope you follow this story. I'm betting some fancy lawyer and a liberal judge will let this guy walk with probation.

a commom misconception until you see the unforetunate souls in america's prison industry "serving" mega years for minor drug "offences".

I think the operative words are "fancy lawyer." Few people with money are in high security prisons. As far as judges go, due to the 'war on drugs' (How's that going anyway? Have we won yet?) judges have no leeway in sentencing most drug-related crime ("fancy lawyers" can get the charges changed so mandatory sentencing isn't imposed on those wealthy enough to afford them).

[shanenin]

If the laws are the same as they used to be, murder does not carry a minnimum mandatory sentence, but possesion of drugs does. What a travesty :-(

Being a drug addict(clean today), i know almost all sell drugs only to support their habit, if they make money that is secondary to staying high. I have had 112 grams of meth on my possesion before, I am sure that was enough to put me away for 5 years. In my mind that is no different then putting an alcoholic in prison for 5 years because they CAN'T stop drinking.

edit added later//

Government made a situation when they caused a market to be made with the prohibition of drugs. I can speak for most addicts. If we could just buy drugs legally and not spend endless hours worrying about getting caught and going to jail, we would. With legalization lots of crime would evaporate. I am a pacifist, but the stupid drug laws forced me to do a most unnatural thing. After being robbed by gunpoint several times because of the drug laws, I felt the need to buy a 12 guage shotgun, and protect my house. I am so great full I never was forced to use it(I called it the peace keeper) in self defense.

If drugs were legalized toady, I still would not use them.

Edited December 27, 2006 by shanenin

[Honda_Boy]

I don't use any drugs and never will. I also don't smoke nor drink. I do not support legalization of any drug. Though I am not majorly anti marijuana. It would be the only drug that wouldn't bug me too much to be legalized because it's effects aren't too different from alcohol. It is actually proven that it does less damage overall to your body but affects the brain just as bad as alcohol, therefore I still do not condone it. We had a whole discussion on this in Contemporary Issues in high school. The teacher was a police officer so he knew what he was talking about. I knew that many of the kids in the class were druggies or at least they were pot heads but their thoughts were the same. They all thought anything other than marijuana was too dangerous to legalize.

[snyper]

Holy crap!

Thats terrible.

Domestic violence no doubt.

And we think it only happens in the movies

[shanenin]

Holy crap!

Thats terrible.

Domestic violence no doubt.

And we think it only happens in the movies

men murdering women is horrible. I have no statistics, but I bet the majority of murders in the world are men who kill thier spouse/girlfreind

Edited December 27, 2006 by shanenin

[shanenin]

They all thought anything other than marijuana was too dangerous to legalize.

I agree, powder drugs are horrible to the body, mind and spirit. But criminalizing them causes more problems then if they were legalized.

edit added later//

sorry for polluting this thread with my political views. It is something I am passionate about.

Edited December 28, 2006 by shanenin

[JDoors]

... murder does not carry a minnimum mandatory sentence, but possesion of drugs does. What a travesty :-( ...

I'm on the fence. Drugs, at least those already made illegal, are definitely, positively harmful (after all, most LEGAL drugs can kill you -- what makes anyone believe ANY drug can be "handled" without harm), so I understand the thought behind trying to eliminate them from society (that's why I hinted at my view by asking how the war on drugs is going -- it's not working, that's how).

But do we really need MORE legalized drugs? Alchohol and tobacco have killed millions, there IS no argument, in my mind, for adding to the list of legalized mind-altering drugs that can justify adding to the death toll. On the other hand, prohibition failed, stigmatizing tobacco and taxing the living daylights out of it hasn't stopped its use, and the war on drugs is an abject failure, so ... I don't know.

------

UPDATE on the murder: The suspect hanged himself. He was the only suspect so the police have closed the case (no mention in the news about the crime being recorded, there are cameras everywhere in the garage where the murder was committed).

[shanenin]

UPDATE on the murder: The suspect hanged himself.

I knew O.J. forgot something

Edited December 28, 2006 by shanenin

[mikex]

shanenin congratulations. It takes alot to get away from that.

Suspect....HA

About 6 years ago my aunt was murdered. Her boyfriend was caught and confessed. He got 47 years.

My aunt could have lived 47 years before dying of old age....

I will stop at that...

M

[thesidekickcat]

Mike I am so sorry about what happened to your Aunt.

All of these cases are so sad, both for the victim, the abuser/murderer, and everyone connected with them.

Lots of what ifs and if onlys can be thought of, but nothing changes the reality of bad choices made even worse by escalated control-freak violence.

I narrowly escaped from an abusive situation (1st husband). The only reason I am alive is he didn't have the guts to actually pull the trigger or to beat me to death all the times he tried to for which I am very thankful!!! But escape wasn't easy way back then, and still isn't for women (and children) caught in the trap of bad choices putting their lives at risk.

I have written PMs back and forth with women and kids on other boards who are living nightmares of current or past situations that make my past look like a walk in the park. Yet they are managing to survive the best they can either as finally free of the situation or still stuck in it trying to solve an unsolvable problem. We should continually pray for and support those who are in such emotional and physical distress over past or present abuse, whether on the boards, or in the news, or in the neighborhood, in the workplace, or in church (yes I said church! unbelievable but true that Christians are just as likely to abuse as anyone else...and use the Bible against the victims...man of house/obey or else!).

A recent case here, a high school principal was accused of abuse by his new wife, he denied it...high school said he stays on job until trial, she backed downed when DA said not enough proof to take him to court....she committed suicide that day or next after getting the DA report...he is being supported "in his grief" by the entire school board and teachers etc...but not by all the community....and interestingly not be alot of the students!!!

A case a few years back up in Tacoma Wa. The police chief was an abuser, his wife left, he got visiting rights to kids and on one of the exchange days he shot her dead with their kids waiting in the car, then shot himself dead too, and now the kids have no one. Seems after the fact that the entire police department and city officials knew he was violent and had made threats to kill his wife and had abused her too, and they did nothing to help her, and he kept his job. Though getting fired over it might have triggered a violent attack too, in this case and one above as in many others where anything and everything can set the abuser off.

I am going to quit now and have a good cry, then will Praise God for getting me out before I became another murdered victim.

But before I go, if anyone wants some links for abuse victims you know to help them with ideas of how to leave in safest way...just ask. I will come back later and add them to this thread.

Pat

God bless everyone

[JDoors]

Awful, just awful. There are more and better resources nowadays but sometimes the situation makes it difficult to do anything positive. So sad.

Try to think about the vast, VAST majority of relationships that go a lifetime without things like death threats or daily violence. Getting involved is a good thing, but not if it alters your perspective too far toward the negative.