Ideas

[jcl]

Well, I'm bored. [be afraid!] This board is working out quite well for tech support, but I've been thinking that it might be nice to add some general proactive support to complement the normal specific reactive support.

For starters, I've been considering writing a short(ish) HOWTO for this forum. An overview of what information is useful to include in requests for help, how to find that information, and maybe a very short command-line tutorial to allow people to use the various diagnostic utilities that I keep asking them to use without explanation . Not a general FAQ like we had in the TTV forums, but something that would smooth out the support process and make everyone's lives a bit easier.

There are some other ideas that I've been kicking around, but I'm not ready to offer them up for consideration yet.

If anyone else has ideas, I would of course be happy to hear them.

[Edit: Hahaha, rereading that, it seems that I've seized power. I promise my reign will be cruel and merciless, but you can rest assured knowing that your sacrifices will not be in vain, but will only add to my greatness.]

Edited October 24, 2004 by jcl

[jcl]

FWIW, here's a draft I hacked up over the last hour or so, just to give you an idea of what I'm considering. I'm still trying to decide whether it's better to stick to prose or something more formal, and this draft is somewhere in between. Also trying to decide whether it's better to be concise or verbose. It's pretty terse in places right now just because that's how I seem to write, but that might put off some people.

----

Introduction

Welcome to the Linux/Unix Support Forum HOWTO. The purpose of this document is provide you information that will help you help us help you. [No, that's not how it's going to read in the final version. Unless we want to scare people away.]

[Expand rationale. Note that it doesn't matter if they can't provide information, more important to solve the problem than explain it clearly.]

Preliminaries

[short explanation of how to get to a terminal, use command-line utilities, how to read CODE blocks, etc.]

Essentials

Above all else, we need you to provide information. As much information as possible in the greatest detail possible. Use whatever space you need. If you can't describe the problem in technical terms, describe it in non-technical terms. Be vague if you have to. Use analogies. Describe what you see, copy and paste, post screenshots or links. Tell us what you were doing before the problem appeared and what you've done since. Guess at solutions.

Anything may be important, so post everything you know.

General Support

It is usually important for us to know what operating system you are using. Even if your problem isn't related to the operating system, it will often be easier for us to provide solutions in terms of specific systems.

At the very least we need to know what type of operating system you are using. Linux, BSD, Unix, etc. The more specific you can be, the better.

If possible, tell us what distribution of the system you are using. Red Hat, SuSE, Mandrake, FreeBSD, Solaris, etc. If the distribution has multiple branches, tell us which one you use. Debian testing, FreeBSD-STABLE, etc.

If possible, tell us what version of the system you are using. Red Hat 9, SuSE 8.1, FreeBSD 5.2, etc. If you've updated your system, note that and try to approximate the version. If the distribution is constantly updated, tell us when you last updated your system. If you have to, just tell us when you installed the system and how new you think it was then.

One easy way to provide us with information about the system is to use the uname command. This command will tell you at least what system you're using, the kernel version, when it was created, and the platform on which it is running.

$ uname -a
Linux localhost 2.6.8.1 #1 Mon Oct 11 01:30:50 PDT 2004 i686 AMD Athlon(tm) XP 1500+ AuthenticAMD GNU/Linux

In this case, the system is "GNU/Linux" or simply "Linux", the kernel version is "2.6.8.1", the system was created on "Mon Oct 11 01:30:50 PDT", and the platform is "i686".

Alternatively, you post the contents of the file /proc/version. This file is mostly the same to the output of uname, but can sometimes provide useful additional information.

$ cat /proc/version
Linux version 2.6.8.1 (root@localhost) (gcc version 3.3.4 20040623 (Gentoo Linux 3.3.4-r1, ssp-3.3.2-2, pie-8.7.6)) #1 Mon Oct 11 01:30:50 PDT 2004

We can now see that the distribution is Gentoo.

Software Support

[software name, version, dependencies, etc. Maybe extra subsection for the kernel.]

Hardware Support

[Device type, make, module, interface, chipset. Maybe additional information for network devices since they're so variable (PCI vs. USB, etc) and depend on the state of the network. Separate section may be in order.]

Edited October 24, 2004 by jcl

[hitest]

I really like your idea, jcl of posting a HOWTO site for newcomers to Linux. This'll help out a lot. I'm still using Mandrake 10. Going to get 10.1 next month. I'm not as bored with Linux as I was a short time ago.

[tictoc5150]

great idea!...help out dolts like me!!!....lol

and hitest,

I'm not as bored with Linux as I was a short time ago.

same here, not too long ago I almost uninstalled to just use windows, now it's swingin' the other way and am considering making my notebook mandrake exclusive.

how often do you upgrade? ....everytime there's a .1 .2 .3?......lol

[hitest]

great idea!...help out dolts like me!!!....lol

and hitest,

I'm not as bored with Linux as I was a short time ago.

same here, not too long ago I almost uninstalled to just use windows, now it's swingin' the other way and am considering making my notebook mandrake exclusive.

how often do you upgrade? ....everytime there's a .1 .2 .3?......lol

Yeah, I really like Mandrake, it rocks. I just re-formatted my hard drive on Friday, re-installed Mandrake 10. I did something delightfully stupid, had to re-install. Sytem is woring better after a clean install.

I've been to Mandrake.com and 10.1 looks like it has some interesting features. Yeah I like upgrading at each point upgrade, so I'll go for Mandrake 10.1.

I've also downloaded Fire Fox 1.0 onto my system as Konqueror isn't a great browser. I've also downloaded Thunderbird as my mail client. Both are great open source products available at mozilla.org.

[jcl]

Heh, well, I got distracted. I was going to work on the HOWTO tonight, but I suddenly had this urge to make a web browser. You know how it goes. Anyway, the browser is usable now, so I'll probably start to lose interest in it and get back to hacking the HOWTO tomorrow.

[Edit: Replaced the screenshot with one with a slightly less embarrassing UI. Hey, whadayawant for four hours work? ]

Edited October 26, 2004 by jcl

[tictoc5150]

I've been to Mandrake.com and 10.1 looks like it has some interesting features.

hmmm, just checked em' out....does look interesting...wish I would've bought a centrino, all this penny pinching is gonna give me arthritis...lol

I do like the sound of... "10.1 Community is the first Linux operating system to offer advanced, yet user friendly, power management for laptops, including detection and configuration of ACPI...."

Yeah I like upgrading at each point upgrade, so I'll go for Mandrake 10.1.

am I correct in thinking that even numbered distros are released as officials and odds aren't?...thought I read that somewhere.

I did something delightfully stupid, had to re-install.

thought I was the only one who does that kinda thing...lol

I've also downloaded Fire Fox 1.0 onto my system as Konqueror isn't a great browser. I've also downloaded Thunderbird as my mail client. Both are great open source products available at mozilla.org.

Those were absolute must haves on my first install, needed the familiarity ...had "stranger in a strange land" syndrome...lol

I'll probably be d/loading 10.1 soon since I'm thinking about a fresh start, let me know how yours goes

and jcl, too cool....it doesn't have much in the way of aesthetics but really cool none the less....wish I could be that productive when I'm bored, the best I usually do is some graphics design or play guitar (oooo really productive there...lol)

[hitest]

I've been to Mandrake.com and 10.1 looks like it has some interesting features.

hmmm, just checked em' out....does look interesting...wish I would've bought a centrino, all this penny pinching is gonna give me arthritis...lol

I do like the sound of... "10.1 Community is the first Linux operating system to offer advanced, yet user friendly, power management for laptops, including detection and configuration of ACPI...."

Yeah I like upgrading at each point upgrade, so I'll go for Mandrake 10.1.

am I correct in thinking that even numbered distros are released as officials and odds aren't?...thought I read that somewhere.

I did something delightfully stupid, had to re-install.

thought I was the only one who does that kinda thing...lol

I've also downloaded Fire Fox 1.0 onto my system as Konqueror isn't a great browser. I've also downloaded Thunderbird as my mail client. Both are great open source products available at mozilla.org.

Those were absolute must haves on my first install, needed the familiarity ...had "stranger in a strange land" syndrome...lol

I'll probably be d/loading 10.1 soon since I'm thinking about a fresh start, let me know how yours goes

and jcl, too cool....it doesn't have much in the way of aesthetics but really cool none the less....wish I could be that productive when I'm bored, the best I usually do is some graphics design or play guitar (oooo really productive there...lol)

Yep, I'll let you know how 10.1 turns out. I just have to get motivated to do it. I'll be checking the mirrors and see if it's up there in early November.

Good point about point upgrades. I know with kernel upgrades the odd numbered point release kernels are beta, experimental whereas the even numbered point releases are stable.

With 10.1 I'd check to see what the kernel is, that'll help you decide if you want to take a risk on it.

[hitest]

Heh, well, I got distracted. I was going to work on the HOWTO tonight, but I suddenly had this urge to make a web browser. You know how it goes. Anyway, the browser is usable now, so I'll probably start to lose interest in it and get back to hacking the HOWTO tomorrow.

[Edit: Replaced the screenshot with one with a slightly less embarrassing UI. Hey, whadayawant for four hours work? ]

Sweet browser, I like the look of it. Is it based on mozilla, fire fox? Cool.

[Besttechie]

Hi jcl,

Yes, this is a great idea, and I really like it. If you would do that it would be appreciated. In fact, I have been thinking about having people write HowTo's/Tutorials on certain things and this was one of them. So yes, go ahead and then I can pin it so everyone can read it. Great job everyone.

Cya on the boards...

B

[jcl]

Sweet browser, I like the look of it.  Is it based on mozilla, fire fox?  Cool.

It uses the Mono wrapper for GtkMozEmbed for rendering pages. The rest of it is just a blob of Gtk#.

I still can't believe I posted a screenshot of it in that condition. It was more attractive early on, when I was using context menus for everything. The current UI is the result of my trying to minimize the amount of code I'm maintaining while I work on other parts of the browser. I've already eliminated that stupid "-" button (close current tab, used before I had any per-tab controls), and the "+" button is next on my list.

Anyway, back on topic, I am working on the HOWTO. Right now I'm focusing on making it more concise, so that people aren't confronted with a ten page manual. The only major change is that I'm considering dropping the command-line tutorial section. If there's really a need for a tutorial, it'd probably be better to make a stand-alone document down in Tips and Tricks or something. Or just link to an external tutorial.

[Snaxe]

Thanks, jcl. That's a good start. Reading this thread is making me rebooting into Red Hat. Good day.

[hitest]

Sweet browser, I like the look of it.  Is it based on mozilla, fire fox?  Cool.

It uses the Mono wrapper for GtkMozEmbed for rendering pages. The rest of it is just a blob of Gtk#.

I still can't believe I posted a screenshot of it in that condition. It was more attractive early on, when I was using context menus for everything. The current UI is the result of my trying to minimize the amount of code I'm maintaining while I work on other parts of the browser. I've already eliminated that stupid "-" button (close current tab, used before I had any per-tab controls), and the "+" button is next on my list.

Anyway, back on topic, I am working on the HOWTO. Right now I'm focusing on making it more concise, so that people aren't confronted with a ten page manual. The only major change is that I'm considering dropping the command-line tutorial section. If there's really a need for a tutorial, it'd probably be better to make a stand-alone document down in Tips and Tricks or something. Or just link to an external tutorial.

You're light years ahead of me:-) You wrote the code for a browser, very cool.

The closest I come to writing code is writing html which isn't really a programming language as you know.

I think the HOWTO is going to be great for the people who browse the Linux forums here.

I agree with you about the command line tutorial. Here's a link for people who are interested in learning the command line.

Linux Command.org