America Was Not Built On Christianity

[TheLetterK]

"Visit this site and see how our nation's foundation was built around

Christianity and how we are loosing touch with out roots.

FORSAKEN ROOTS

http://www.wtv-zone.com/Mary/forsakenroots.html"

This was posted in the 9/11 rememberence thread, and I didn't feel like polluting it with a silly religious debate.

The United States is not founded upon christianity--it's founded upon the concept of religious neutrality. People so often view the words and actions of a time 200 years behind as they would words today. The use of 'God' in these speeches and documents is not the same context as the use of 'God' today. Back then, in formal documents and speeches, the use of 'under God' and such was used to signify some kind of higher purpose, or a just cause. Yes, many of these founding members of the movement that would eventually lead to the creation of our current government were christian. But they had the good sense to keep religion out. Further, the creators of this current government (and while many were 'founding fathers' who signed the Declaration of Independence, they were not all) specifically made their intent clear. Our nation is founded upon the notion of self-determination and liberty for all citizens (albiet, the definition of citizen has changed over the years)--not the oppression and blindness of theocracy.

Further, many of the quotes and intents of the site referenced are misleading and stripped of their context. Thomas Jefferson, for example, was often and loudly criticized for his 'deist' stance on religion. Washington's farewell address was very correct. At the time, it was impossible to rule without some kind of mandate from God. People at the time had no concept of ethics beyond religion. Simply put, it would have been impossible to effectively govern were the shawl of religion pulled from before their eyes. The author of this site speaks of leaders, as if these leaders somehow imposed their personal beliefs upon this government. Thankfully, they saw the folly of such an act and instead chose to see reason and inacted forms of government not based on religious doctrine or 'Christian beliefs' that they may well have held privately.

Edited September 11, 2005 by TheLetterK

[Bubba Bob]

Huh?

Your statement and that site you linked to contradict each other.

[TheLetterK]

Huh?

Your statement and that site you linked to contradict each other.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was quoting another member whom I disagree with, from another thread I didn't want to pollute.

Yes, I linked to a contradicting website by intent.

[Bubba Bob]

Huh?

Your statement and that site you linked to contradict each other.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was quoting another member whom I disagree with, from another thread I didn't want to pollute.

Yes, I linked to a contradicting website by intent.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh, of course, i see now...

I must have somehow skipped over "This was posted in the 9/11 rememberence thread, and I didn't feel like polluting it with a silly religious debate."

Edited September 11, 2005 by Bubba Bob

[screi]

"Visit this site and see how our nation's foundation was built around

Christianity and how we are loosing touch with out roots.

FORSAKEN ROOTS

http://www.wtv-zone.com/Mary/forsakenroots.html"

This was posted in the 9/11 rememberence thread, and I didn't feel like polluting it with a silly religious debate.

The United States is not founded upon christianity--it's founded upon the concept of religious neutrality. People so often view the words and actions of a time 200 years behind as they would words today. The use of 'God' in these speeches and documents is not the same context as the use of 'God' today. Back then, in formal documents and speeches, the use of 'under God' and such was used to signify some kind of higher purpose, or a just cause. Yes, many of these founding members of the movement that would eventually lead to the creation of our current government were christian. But they had the good sense to keep religion out. Further, the creators of this current government (and while many were 'founding fathers' who signed the Declaration of Independence, they were not all) specifically made their intent clear. Our nation is founded upon the notion of self-determination and liberty for all citizens (albiet, the definition of citizen has changed over the years)--not the oppression and blindness of theocracy.

Further, many of the quotes and intents of the site referenced are misleading and stripped of their context. Thomas Jefferson, for example, was often and loudly criticized for his 'deist' stance on religion. Washington's farewell address was very correct. At the time, it was impossible to rule without some kind of mandate from God. People at the time had no concept of ethics beyond religion. Simply put, it would have been impossible to effectively govern were the shawl of religion pulled from before their eyes. The author of this site speaks of leaders, as if these leaders somehow imposed their personal beliefs upon this government. Thankfully, they saw the folly of such an act and instead chose to see reason and inacted forms of government not based on religious doctrine or 'Christian beliefs' that they may well have held privately.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

well written..now let's hope those who may disagree will not take too much offense...religion and politics..imo should never be mixed...

[jcl]

well written..now let's hope those who may disagree will not take too much offense...religion and politics..imo should never be mixed...  

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In public forums I'm not fond of seeing them separately either.

Edited September 12, 2005 by jcl

[robroy]

Very true jcl, because they are the two subjects that bring out more arguments than everything else together

[hitest]

well written..now let's hope those who may disagree will not take too much offense...religion and politics..imo should never be mixed...  

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In public forums I'm not fond of seeing them separately either.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agreed.

[JDoors]

... The use of 'God' in these speeches and documents is not the same context as the use of 'God' today. ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Unless it's your version of God you wish to promote that is. (Ok, ok, no controversy, I know, I know.)

It always bothers me when people try to define the founding of our country in religious terms all the while ignoring the effort and intent to leave our country's religion undefined.

[Brian_Holiday]

It never surprises me the drivel people will believe. Rather than just READING the Constitution and taking it at face value for what it SAYS, they want to find some way to spin what was said to their current political view.

Direct Quote:

  Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Establishment of an official religion, that seems pretty clear. If you want to make it say something else, feel free to do it the right way:

Article V

The Congress, whenever two thirds of both houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose amendments to this Constitution, or, on the application of the legislatures of two thirds of the several states, shall call a convention for proposing amendments, which, in either case, shall be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the several states, or by conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other mode of ratification may be proposed by the Congress; provided that no amendment which may be made prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any manner affect the first and fourth clauses in the ninth section of the first article; and that no state, without its consent, shall be deprived of its equal suffrage in the Senate.

I think as a country we need to work on our public education system, it seems to be mis-teaching some important facts. I went to 11 different schools in 12 years, trust me, the disparities between what you learn where is frightening.

BH