Researchers: Macs Are Less Secure Than Windows Pcs

[Peaches]

Oh, oh, you Mac lovers are gonna hate me for this post ... that's okay I have my bullet proof vest on. So for those in the Mac community who believe the Mac is invulnerable, there's this simple message: You're living in the past.

Researchers: Macs are less secure than Windows PCs

"For years, Apple fans have claimed that Macs are invulnerable to attack, while belittling Windows as being full of security holes. Now the tables are turned --- not only has a Trojan infected Macs and created a botnet, but several well-known researchers warn that Mac OS X is less secure than either Windows or Linux.

In the last few days, there's been a great deal of publicity about the discovery of the world's first Mac botnet. When Mac users downloaded a pirated copy of iLife, their machines were taken over by a Trojan. At that point, according to Symantec experts Andy Cianciotto and Angela Thigpen:

When the Trojanized installer is executed, it also runs the malicious program iworkservices. The Trojan, OSX.Iservice, targets the Mac OS and is compiled as a Mach-O multi-architecture binary. This allows the Trojan to run natively on both PowerPC and x86 architectures.

...

The Trojan acts as a back door and opens a port on the local host for connections. It then attempts to connect to the following remote hosts:

69.92.177.146:59201

qwfojzlk.freehostia.com:1024. "

Computerworld for full article: http://tinyurl.com/dcgdsr

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Mac/PC/Linux? It doesn't matter, and here's why...

Submitted by Mike91163 on April 18, 2009 - 8:41 A.M.

Y'all are missing the BIGGER point: The HUMAN factor, and it applies across the board, regardless of the OS. Us "geeks" see the world through our "tech-colored" glasses, with tunnel vision, and we miss the whole picture.

Software of any kind, be it an operating system or an application, is written by HUMANS. Humans make mistakes; humans miss seeing things; that's what makes us who we are. Humans also tend to be a trusting bunch, and that's what gets us into trouble as well. Social engineering has been going on for millenia; you don't believe me, look up the definition of "Trojan horse".

Whether OSX's latest security breach requires human interaction doesn't matter; the fact that it exists shoots a huge hole into the Mac fanboi's argument that "Macs don't get viruses." Whatever your opinion of Windows and Microsoft is, the superiority complex of the Mac brigade is annoying and getting quite old. And, the *Nix boys aren't that far off from their Mac conterparts either; sure, you are constantly hassled for a root password, but what IF an "amateur" downloads and installs a Linux Trojan (and, before you say they don't exist, it's not a question of IF, but rather WHEN), and they type that root pwd, it's GAME OVER. That's what I mean by the human factor.

Until such time as we humans become perfect(which you'll be waiting a LOOOOONG time), these issues will crop up.

Skynet anyone????

computerworld - http://tinyurl.com/dcgdsr

[mewi]

Here is an old one called "Month of the Apple Bugs", imagine how many they'd find if they continued?

http://projects.info-pull.com/moab/

[isteve]

Well as long as Operating Systems can be user modified there will be exploits no matter what platform. But if we're keeping score I think windows has 70000+ to os x's 7 + or - a few. Of course on a fully up to date system it's more like 1100 to 1. And this is how they decide that windows is safer because more bugs have been patched on Windows then Mac.

And on both systems downloading and installing is the biggest vector for delivery. So user ignorance is a big factor.

[mewi]

Well as long as Operating Systems can be user modified there will be exploits no matter what platform. But if we're keeping score I think windows has 70000+ to os x's 7 + or - a few. Of course on a fully up to date system it's more like 1100 to 1. And this is how they decide that windows is safer because more bugs have been patched on Windows then Mac.

And on both systems downloading and installing is the biggest vector for delivery. So user ignorance is a big factor.

What is this whole "User ignorance" factor I am hearing? Are you saying Apple users are more experienced by majority VS Windows Users? If not, then that whole statement wasn't really relevant in my opinion. Especially considering from my personal communication with many Mac Fanboys, they couldn't tell the difference between a dorito and a pentium processor. <-- just remember most Mac users are mac users because their Windows kept getting viruses and crashing... My Windows never crashes, never gets viruses ( oh look I don't even have anti virus installed )

But I guess I should be more supportive of Apple ever since they donated 100,000$ to help fight the injustice of Proposition 8 in California ( Same sex marriage ban )

[hitest]

But I guess I should be more supportive of Apple ever since they donated 100,000$ to help fight the injustice of Proposition 8 in California ( Same sex marriage ban )

Ahem........if you want to get political please post stuff like this in the World and Politics forum. Thank you.

[Peaches]

It all boils down to a matter of personal choice. The only safe computer is one that is not hooked up to the internet. In over 10 years of using Windows I have had 2 viruses and those were when I was totally new to computers and had no idea what a virus was let alone know I had to update, patch or whatever.

I work on a corporate board and have an email list in excess of 200 emails - most on this list have no idea about computer security so it behooves me to be as secure as I possibly can ... I have yet to have infected any computer [touch wood!!] but on more than 2 occasions I have been sent a virus from a friend with a Mac. When he junked his windows Pc, he asked me to clean it out before he sold it .. well I found 4 different trojans, 165 malware, computer never defragged or updated. Hello!! One virus was so poorly written that it tried to go out via entry. He wondered why his mail was not coming through ... I guess not!!

If I were a virus writer, there are far more bragging rights & computers to infect using Windows than a Mac so why would I waste my time on a Mac.? However, now that Mac is gaining in the marketplace, they are now getting the attention of virus writers. Even for the sake of argument that a Mac is safer, it is folly to be complacent about it. It is sort of saying that I live in a nice safe neighborhood and I don't need to lock my doors.

Just as an aside .. I have had my computer tested on Steve Gibson's site ... I got a congratulations ... 100% secure rating and my computer could not be fooled, and did not exist on the internet. I learned on forums such as this one about computer and internet security ... hats off to those who provided these resources online as they have helped many people such as myself in enjoying safe computing.

Stay safe and enjoy your computer whether it is a Windows or a Mac.

[mewi]

It all boils down to a matter of personal choice. The only safe computer is one that is not hooked up to the internet. In over 10 years of using Windows I have had 2 viruses and those were when I was totally new to computers and had no idea what a virus was let alone know I had to update, patch or whatever.

I work on a corporate board and have an email list in excess of 200 emails - most on this list have no idea about computer security so it behooves me to be as secure as I possibly can ... I have yet to have infected any computer [touch wood!!] but on more than 2 occasions I have been sent a virus from a friend with a Mac. When he junked his windows Pc, he asked me to clean it out before he sold it .. well I found 4 different trojans, 165 malware, computer never defragged or updated. Hello!! One virus was so poorly written that it tried to go out via entry. He wondered why his mail was not coming through ... I guess not!!

If I were a virus writer, there are far more bragging rights & computers to infect using Windows than a Mac so why would I waste my time on a Mac.? However, now that Mac is gaining in the marketplace, they are now getting the attention of virus writers. Even for the sake of argument that a Mac is safer, it is folly to be complacent about it. It is sort of saying that I live in a nice safe neighborhood and I don't need to lock my doors.

Just as an aside .. I have had my computer tested on Steve Gibson's site ... I got a congratulations ... 100% secure rating and my computer could not be fooled, and did not exist on the internet. I learned on forums such as this one about computer and internet security ... hats off to those who provided these resources online as they have helped many people such as myself in enjoying safe computing.

Stay safe and enjoy your computer whether it is a Windows or a Mac.

Congratulations Peaches, I dunno what this Gibson site is, but congrats I suppose =3 Analyzing strings in your processes with process explorer can generally tell you if you have a virus or not. It may take a little while but if it's there, you can find it x3

I've seen some pretty crazy viruses in my day... my friend ( supposedly a computer expert XD ) had received a virus VIA something.... Anyway, the virus had completely made every single .exe useless after windows loaded. You couldn't run anything. I think it did massive damage to his registry. But this was long long ago when I was 17 ( I'm 24 now ) I wish I could remember the virus... somethingsrv

But I guess I should be more supportive of Apple ever since they donated 100,000$ to help fight the injustice of Proposition 8 in California ( Same sex marriage ban )

Ahem........if you want to get political please post stuff like this in the World and Politics forum. Thank you.

I fail to see where I was getting "political", it was more like a factual footnote? Unless you have something against us LGBT? In fact, you taking that one line out of my entire post means you are just trying to boast moderation ability >.>, if you want to create an argument saying the thing you did, in the manner you said it, then that is a sure fine way of creating more "Political" discussion... not reducing it.

Just in case you make the argument "i was merely suggesting", telling someone even with "please and thank you" is an order regardless. If you had been a normal member, the issue could of been ignored, but since you have moderation ability, you are giving that order based off that power.

So, excuse me for saying so, but from my point of view, that was an unnecessary post, as is my own. As a moderator, there is a time and place. Moderation ability should be used only for issues that require them ( aka as sparingly as possible ). A moderator should never go out looking for trouble, especially where none exists.

[hitest]

I fail to see where I was getting "political", it was more like a factual footnote? Unless you have something against us LGBT? In fact, you taking that one line out of my entire post means you are just trying to boast moderation ability >.>, if you want to create an argument saying the thing you did, in the manner you said it, then that is a sure fine way of creating more "Political" discussion... not reducing it.

Just in case you make the argument "i was merely suggesting", telling someone even with "please and thank you" is an order regardless. If you had been a normal member, the issue could of been ignored, but since you have moderation ability, you are giving that order based off that power.

So, excuse me for saying so, but from my point of view, that was an unnecessary post, as is my own. As a moderator, there is a time and place. Moderation ability should be used only for issues that require them ( aka as sparingly as possible ). A moderator should never go out looking for trouble, especially where none exists.

The subject of same-sex marriages is a highly charged emotional topic tied up with politics. We have a forum for topics such as this. In the future please post topics such as this in the World and Politics forum. Thank you.

hitest

[iccaros]

in Truth all Operating systems are easy to attack. just get the user to run the software. And all software has bugs.. until we create the perfect compiler we do not have a chance to write perfect code. And this windows is more popular is a great myth, as a hack that breaks into a Mac would likely work on any UNIX/Linux system which at last count out numbered windows installs with a much higher profile. The simple fact is that virus spread is slower due to the root/user model of a UNIX system compared to the User is admin model of a Windows system. Now if we move windows to a Domain and control it, then it get a lot of the same protections that Unix gives as the user is not a admin (when done correctly) a Admin would have a Admin account and a separate user account. but on desktops the first user by default on a windows system is an admin. so the first thing I have my windows friends do is create a limited user account. but if they play games this does not work well.

also even on a Vista system with great protections, if the user decides to install software they get a pop-up (or screen goes dark) and it ask if it is ok to run the installer. once the user hits OK the installer has system rights.. not the user rights.. the rights is not as big of an issues as how many times, for minor changes the user is asked to hit ok, this leads to the user just accepting and hitting OK no matter what caused it.

in the Unix structure the user must enter a password or change roles. either is not asked often so it is not a common thing to do so it stops most but not all. but in any case the program is only installed with the users rights (if the system is setup correctly). which means that it cannot just start processes. so viruses just do not spread as well, so total impact is much smaller and not worth the time.

you can hate or love apple for its politics, which have nothing to do with its OS, but its proximity to specific cities.

Windows has some great security feature, its sad that most of that is destroyed on home systems by making the default user the admin.

Mac has some horrible security holes, like no randomized memory (coming soon) or no execution bit, but makes up for that in the standard Unix security of limiting users

Linux has both worlds that get screwed up with Gnome and KDE

so in the end, use what you like but be smart..

for a hobby I like to click the popup virus warnings from the web while running IE from WINE. . they try to install malware (since I clicked ok to the active X script) but Wine Is not ready for the desktop.. its still has issues running viruses.

oldie by a goodie

http://www.linux.com/feature/42031

[hitest]

so in the end, use what you like but be smart..

QFT!

[mewi]

I fail to see where I was getting "political", it was more like a factual footnote? Unless you have something against us LGBT? In fact, you taking that one line out of my entire post means you are just trying to boast moderation ability >.>, if you want to create an argument saying the thing you did, in the manner you said it, then that is a sure fine way of creating more "Political" discussion... not reducing it.

Just in case you make the argument "i was merely suggesting", telling someone even with "please and thank you" is an order regardless. If you had been a normal member, the issue could of been ignored, but since you have moderation ability, you are giving that order based off that power.

So, excuse me for saying so, but from my point of view, that was an unnecessary post, as is my own. As a moderator, there is a time and place. Moderation ability should be used only for issues that require them ( aka as sparingly as possible ). A moderator should never go out looking for trouble, especially where none exists.

The subject of same-sex marriages is a highly charged emotional topic tied up with politics. We have a forum for topics such as this. In the future please post topics such as this in the World and Politics forum. Thank you.

hitest

I wasn't posting in regards to same sex marriage, I simply made a small statement about Apple, which this entire thread is about Apple... It was nothing to get excited over... If i wanted a political debate about same sex marriage, my post would of contained nothing about Apple, and more about same sex marriage... You are kind of stretching my one sentence, I can make whatever footnote I wish... it wasn't "off topic" -.-

[iccaros]

I fail to see where I was getting "political", it was more like a factual footnote? Unless you have something against us LGBT? In fact, you taking that one line out of my entire post means you are just trying to boast moderation ability >.>, if you want to create an argument saying the thing you did, in the manner you said it, then that is a sure fine way of creating more "Political" discussion... not reducing it.

Just in case you make the argument "i was merely suggesting", telling someone even with "please and thank you" is an order regardless. If you had been a normal member, the issue could of been ignored, but since you have moderation ability, you are giving that order based off that power.

So, excuse me for saying so, but from my point of view, that was an unnecessary post, as is my own. As a moderator, there is a time and place. Moderation ability should be used only for issues that require them ( aka as sparingly as possible ). A moderator should never go out looking for trouble, especially where none exists.

The subject of same-sex marriages is a highly charged emotional topic tied up with politics. We have a forum for topics such as this. In the future please post topics such as this in the World and Politics forum. Thank you.

hitest

I wasn't posting in regards to same sex marriage, I simply made a small statement about Apple, which this entire thread is about Apple... It was nothing to get excited over... If i wanted a political debate about same sex marriage, my post would of contained nothing about Apple, and more about same sex marriage... You are kind of stretching my one sentence, I can make whatever footnote I wish... it wasn't "off topic" -.-

I agree your post was fine.. IMHO

but you must agree that its was off topic as the discussion had to do with security, not the political givings of a company, but I would not take it personal. Hitest is a Great person, who I think misunderstood how you meant that part of the comment

we can disagree and we can discuss as long as no one is offended, so we try (well not me, some times I just say what I think... to not offend each other, and that is all he was alluding to.

look forward to your future post.