JDoors Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 (edited) A while ago I purchased two thumb drives. I plugged them into the USB2.0 card and use them to backup files, one for financial data, one for everything else. After months (years?) of no problems, one drive does not "automatically" show up when I boot up the computer (Windows 9x). If I unplug the drive from the card then plug it right back in, it shows up and works fine. I tried changing the socket they were plugged into and the same drive does not show up unless I unplug and replug it. It's going bad, isn't it? ***** Edited March 25, 2009 by JDoors Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tjet Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 Is it a matter of not being listed in the device boot list?No usb errors in device manager?Does it have anything to do with 9X no longer being supported? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDoors Posted March 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 What is a device boot list? (Hmm, guess I could add a path to AUTOEXEC.BAT, but they're removeable so the OS might choke if the drive's not in the plug or cannot be found.) Since the fix was so easy (unplug-replug) I never dug deeper by checking the device manager while the problem was occurring. I discovered the problem because that drive will not show up in a Explorer dialog boxes (such as Run, Save, etc.) until I unplug-replug it. It's worked before, it still works except for this one bug that's new, Windows 9x does support USB 2.0 (with additional drivers, which I have). Since Win 9x isn't "supported" there haven't been any updates to the OS at all, so there's been no change (and the other drive does work as expected anyway). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tjet Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 (edited) Since the fix was so easy (unplug-replug) I never dug deeper by checking the device manager while the problem was occurringWhy not?Are you looking for an excuse to get a new drive? What is a device boot list?I assumed that you did not leave an old machine like that all the time.The RAM BIOS startup program surveys hardware resources and needs, and assigns system resources to meet those needs.The startup program begins the startup process by reading the stored configuration information and then comparing that information to the hardware.Does that jump drive contain anything nessasary for the system to run?But to be honest every time I try to research jump drives I end up frustrated as there does not seem to be a lot of information available. Edited March 26, 2009 by tjet Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pete_C Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 I would suspect an issue with the "safely remove hardware" or "optimize drive for fast removal" settings. Maybe it was disconnected improperly once and windows has one instance where it thinks it is connected and misbehaving.Check device manager (with view=> show hidden devices) both when it is not working and when it is. Any differences?Compare its settings to those for the drive that does not have a problem. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDoors Posted March 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Since the fix was so easy (unplug-replug) I never dug deeper by checking the device manager while the problem was occurringWhy not?Are you looking for an excuse to get a new drive? What is a device boot list?I assumed that you did not leave an old machine like that all the time.The RAM BIOS startup program surveys hardware resources and needs, and assigns system resources to meet those needs.The startup program begins the startup process by reading the stored configuration information and then comparing that information to the hardware.Does that jump drive contain anything nessasary for the system to run?But to be honest every time I try to research jump drives I end up frustrated as there does not seem to be a lot of information available. I only use the drives for backup so there's no reason for me to check them until I need to back something up, that is, I don't even think about them, don't notice them, don't know that the one's not visible. When I'm at that point in my work, what I NEED to do is back that stuff up, and just unplugging/replugging fixes it so I can back up my files. I have to remember when I boot up in the morning that I shouldn't start working, I should check that drive, but remembering stuff ain't my thang. It's not clear what you mean by 'not leave an old machine like that all the time.' The BIOS isn't aware of the drives as the machine's old enough that USB didn't exist, it's entirely run through Windows, so the drives CAN'T exist until Windows boots up. They're removeable so I doubt that it'd be a good idea to assign them resources through the BIOS anyway. By 'necessary for the system to run' do you mean system files? Nope, the drives don't need to be in there at all. Their only use is through Windows, once Windows is running. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDoors Posted March 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 I would suspect an issue with the "safely remove hardware" or "optimize drive for fast removal" settings. Maybe it was disconnected improperly once and windows has one instance where it thinks it is connected and misbehaving.Check device manager (with view=> show hidden devices) both when it is not working and when it is. Any differences?Compare its settings to those for the drive that does not have a problem. Far as I know, there's no 'safely remove hardware' or 'optimize' setting in Windows '9x, at least not for USB drives. You're essentially on your own to know not to remove the drive while it's being written to. The only safety setting is a warning about using the 'delayed write' setting on removeable drives, though it won't stop you from choosing that setting. With Windows running, if you plug in a drive Windows must be 'polling' the hardware 'cause it immediately 'sees' the 'new' drive and makes it available. If you unplug it it's no longer available. I imagine if you had Explorer open when you removed the drive and clicked on the drive letter before Windows removes it, you'd get an error such as 'drive not available' or 'does not exist.' I never removed the drives, had no reason to, but there certainly could have been some kind of glitch anyway that's 'confusing' Windows as to whether or not the drive is there. That gives me some troubleshooting ideas ... IF I remember to do so before I have work that needs to be saved. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDoors Posted March 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 (edited) I remembered to check after I booted up this morning. When I start the computer that particular thumb drive simply doesn't exist as far as Windows is concerned (the second thumb drive shows up and functions as expected). That one drive is not in the device list (the other one is), there are no errors (if there were an error that might imply Windows could see it but not access it, without an error Windows apparently just never saw that the drive was plugged in), and that drive doesn't show up in any Explorer dialogs (while the other one does). I unplug/replug it and Windows miraculously sees it just fine. Once Windows sees the drive, a reboot will not cause it to disappear, it disappears only after the computer has been shut down completely and restarted. So ... Windows installs USB support on startup, polls the hardware, sees one USB drive but cannot see the other, but once Windows is or has been running the polling must change somehow because then, it works. What's ON a USB drive that responds to Windows' polling? How is it different between start-up and once running? Wish you could run something like Spinrite on a thumb drive. Betcha it could find and fix whatever's wrong.******Edits in italic. Edited March 28, 2009 by JDoors Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tjet Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 So ... Windows installs USB support on startup, polls the hardware, sees one USB drive but cannot see the other, but once Windows is or has been running the polling must change somehow because then, it works. What's ON a USB drive that responds to Windows' polling? How is it different between start-up and once running?Could it be a matter of picking and choosing what to do because on limited resources? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDoors Posted March 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 (edited) Interesting idea. I don't have problems with Windows '9x's memory resources, I've long-since learned how to manage them (though occasionally I push my luck and open one. window. too. many.). I don't think Windows memory resources applies since if I take the problem drive, call it "A", and swap the position in the USB card's ports with the problem-free drive, call that one "B", the "A" drive is still the problem. But there is the machine's hardware resource allocation to consider (hmm, not necessarily since the hardware doesn't recognize USB anyway, it's Windows '9x's responsiblity). Ooo! I think I'll try leaving the "B" drive out of the equation next time, unplug it, removinging that from the equation. If it's some kind of hardware resource allocation problem, that should give me a clue. Still thinkin' it's something on the "A" drive that's corrupted, whatever it is that allows Windows to recognize it AS a drive (no, wait, then why does it work perfectly if I unplug and replug it?). I'm cornfused. *****UPDATE: That drive is no longer recognized by Windows. Ever. It was going bad. (All my other USB hardware works fine.)***** Edited March 30, 2009 by JDoors Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pete_C Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 I wonder if this is like the cases where in Win9x if you had two identical hard drives or cdroms on the same channel ; often the boot manager (being DOS) would conclude that one was just an echo and ignore it.How similar are the drives? What if you have just the one that is not normally detected connected? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDoors Posted April 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 The drives themselves are identical (not the content, but I doubt Windows is smart enough to discern that). They WERE working just fine, one would show up as drive "E" and the next would show up as drive "F." That worked without a hitch for months. I tried booting with JUST the potentially defective drive plugged in and it would not show up unless I unplugged and replugged it (though as the update in my last post states, it never shows up now). The other one that wasn't causing any difficulty always shows up, whether it's the only one plugged in on bootup or if both are plugged in, and regardless of which socket I plug them into (first in line, second, etc.). I would use the one that always works for backup but it's too close to being full for comfort. I just back up elsewhere for the time being. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tjet Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 On the bright side I saw a 1GB stick for $9 at the walgreens yesterday.Last ditch on yours would be to try a format but the data's gone. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDoors Posted April 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 Nine bucks! I bought these a while ago at what I thought was a good price, but nine bucks beats the heck out of what I paid. The data was just backups so nothing's lost but that backup, which has already been completed elsewhere. Thanks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pete_C Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 I buy at the store down the street http://www.microcenter.com/search/search_r...p;keyword_array=Flash&keyword_array[drive]=drive$6.99 for a 2GBhttp://www.microcenter.com/single_product_...duct_id=0250132http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_...duct_id=0264561$8.99 for 4GBhttp://www.microcenter.com/single_product_...duct_id=0267424or 2GB readyboost (fast read )http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_...duct_id=0257628 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDoors Posted April 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 I guess they're cheap as all get out, but if 50% of them fail after a year or so ... I know they're not optimal for daily backups since they have limited rewrite capability, but, for the price, I thought I'd try that anyway. Didn't work for me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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