Alternet Fuels

[martymas]

take a read of this article

i didnt see the experiment

but there is plenty of news

once the arabs and the americans take controll of the oil

industry

other countrys will have to find altenate fuels

to save costs

see if you agree

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7805499.stm

[JDoors]

Um, I question your belief that Arabs and Americans are going to "take control" of the supply of petroleum (the British, French, Dutch, Russians and any number of South American and African nations might also disagree with you on that), but as long as they can manage to find sufficiently renewable sources of biofuel that won't destroy the ecosystem or the food supply, why not begin the weaning process ASAP?

That's a tall order however as any additional bio-source MUST have SOME kind of effect on both the ecosystem AND the economy. Currently the main cause of high prices for petroleum is taxation policies. Don't tax it much and it's both abundant AND cheap.

[martymas]

wasent that bushes aim

why he went into iraq

and why he wanted to drill all over the oceans

and why he called iran a rogue

nation

oil is a lucritive bizness

ime not sure why the americans didnt

counter the saudi arabians

as they are one of the most represive nations on earth

but bush made it his bizness to over look that

and such up to them

why OIL

they had nothing else

if you read back in time

the 911 catastrophe

originated from there

osama bi ladan was a saudi

and bushes father

sucked up to them

so oil had a lot of influence in world politics

why do you thing chavez hates americans

because the bush gov

tried to

take control of their oil

this post is not to critize americans

they are victims

of a bad gov

but it is aimed at that rogue gov

called the bush adminstration

marty

you had for 8 years

[JDoors]

That conspiracy theory ("Blood for Oil!") is often repeated, but has no basis in fact (not that that has ever stopped conspiracy theories from being endlessly repeated to the point of being unstoppable). We get most of our oil from places other than the Middle East (Canada, Mexico and South America). How would spending billions and billions of dollars on toppling Hussein's regime EVER be recovered by the pittance of oil we might get from there? And when would we expect to reap any benefits? Years? Decades? Especially since THEY control their oil through their state-owned oil company?

American oil companies ... wait, can you even NAME an American oil company? There's Shell, no, that's Dutch. Amoco/BP/Arco, no, that's British. Oh, Exxon/Mobil! There's one. Do you know how much of the world's oil production they account for? Three percent. A pittance. Then there are like four others nobody's ever heard of outside of their local users.

Saudi Arabian, Iranian, Qatari, Iraqi, Venezuelan, Abu Dabian, Kuwaiti, Nigerian, Libyan, Algerian, Russian, Chinese, Malaysian, and Egyptian oil companies are ALL larger than Exxon/Mobil, the first ones listed are orders of magnitude larger, they positively DWARF Exxon/Mobil.

We're nobody in the world's oil production, but everything that ever happens is because we control oil production.

There are Saudis that disagree with their leaders relationship with the United States and rebel against it. The leaders of Saudi Arabia believe they could lose control if they weren't so repressive of dissent, and their government and religious beliefs allow such repression. I'm not making excuses or saying that's the right way to control your country, but it's those "rebels" that promote terrorism, not the Saudi government themselves (they're guilty of plenty enough as it is, but not international terrorism). Not that facts will stop THAT conspiracy theory either.

[Pete_C]

No Bush went to war in Iraq so that he would be remembered as the great liberator who freed x million people from a ruthless dictator and brought them democracy; that and he thinks God told him to do it (and God told him he wanted him to be President) .He said so himself.

I think he was hoping that the Iraqis would name a street after him and put up a statue just like the people of Kosovo declared Bill Clinton "The Great liberator who saved our people from extermination" and put up a Thirty foot bronze statue of him at one end of Bill Clinton boulevard and a Fifty foot mural of him at the other.

I have seen several articles and programs on biofuels for aircraft.

The big issue seems to be temperature and flame control.

Biofuels so far do not have the stable temperature range of commercial jet fuel.

It has a tendency to turn into a waxy substance if it gets cold (as happens when planes fly at high altitude) and gets to thin and begins to evaporate if it gets hot (sitting on a runway with the air conditioners running).

This so far has prevented any candidates from gaining FAA approval in the US so far.

The same holds true with Bio Diesel; it does not have the same temperature stable range as normal diesel. Thus most "bio diesel" is actually a blend of 20-30% bio and the rest Diesel.

Even then there are issues.

Will we eventually beat it? Possibly if the environmentalists do not get in the way. These same nut jobs who opposed nuclear energy so vehemently that electric utilities in the US had no option but to build coal power plants and add carbon emissions are likely to oppose any attempts to genetically engineer micro organisms to create enzymes to change cellulosic biomass into ethanol or algae which produce oils suitable for bio fuels. Even if these same organisms are created through standard selective breeding they will oppose their introduction.

And the whole anti drug organization is bound to fight tooth and nail against any attempt to utilize hemp ; even though hemp seed oil makes excellent bio fuels and hemp is one of the fastest growing least demanding crops (hey it is a weed, why do you think they call it that?).

I look forward to the next four years to see what research turns up and where money is sunk to guide developement.

Harvesting Methane Hydrates and then using that to create synthetic oil out of coal is also a promising technology for things which need the energy density of liquid fuels; but more likely is that the future of air transport will eventually embrace Hydrogen technology with liquid hydrogen fueled scramjets.

Freight Trains which have the ability to carry massive fuel loads and big rigs which normally refuel at a relatively limited number of truck stops lend themselves ideally to compressed natural gas technology.

Commuter trains lend themselves nicely to electric technology.

Is wind power, nuclear, solar , or any other one approach the solution? I doubt it; instead there will have to be a balanced approach which keeps costs from getting out of hand (look at the damage that the gas prices of last year did to the world economy). There will have to be method of ensuring enough surplus capacity that the price does not fluctuate wildly.

[jcl]

No Bush went to war in Iraq so that he would be remembered as the great liberator who freed x million people from a ruthless dictator and brought them democracy; that and he thinks God told him to do it (and God told him he wanted him to be President) .He said so himself.

What he said and meant has been disputed. The source -- assuming we're thinking of the same story -- claimed that those present believed Bush was speaking metaphorically.

[JDoors]

No Bush went to war in Iraq so that he would be remembered as the great liberator who freed x million people from a ruthless dictator and brought them democracy; that and he thinks God told him to do it (and God told him he wanted him to be President) .He said so himself.

What he said and meant has been disputed. The source -- assuming we're thinking of the same story -- claimed that those present believed Bush was speaking metaphorically.

Metaphor is my interpretation too. God's Will and all that. I also doubt the meme that Bush, rather than going to war based on current international intelligence and fears of additional global terrorism arising out of the previously unthinkable 9/11 attacks, was instead worried about nothing more than his legacy, or revenge, or finishing what Dad started, or "blood for oil," blah, blah, blah. IMO, those are all conspiracy-like theories meant to dehumanize Bush, but, oddly, not Congress or the dozen other nations that supported the war at the time (Congress still funds the war, and other nations are still in Iraq). That kind of disconnect from fact and logic is why I stopped disussing politics -- in general.