Wardriving

[lefty1953]

Thanks for the replies. I will not offer the idea of stealing service to my friend. Nor would I offer that to anyone else. He has the money (already mentioned) to connect legitimately. And so I will let him know the services offered.

[bearskin]

maybe try this

[lefty1953]

maybe try this

Nice little You tube. The person I am trying to help is 65 plus and doesn't know anything about PCs and now has a Laptop to figure out. He even calls me up to help him fix his Screen that is minimized. I drive over there and this has happened 4 times at least, and show him to double click on the blue bar. He then says oh yeah I remember now.

And I don't know how this got started as a new Thread when I posted a reply to my already running thread.

[mikex]

I was not intending your friend start war driving. that will cause more problems than it fixes. There are people who have unsecured networks, they are asking for trouble. Free wifi is not illegal. Getting on a residential or business wifi connection that is unsecured is illegal. Getting on a connection set up for customers is not.

M

[iccaros]

Getting on a residential or business wifi connection that is unsecured is illegal.

in California only and that has not been tested, under FCC rule (47 C.F.R. Section 1.4000) any thing transmitted over the air unencrypted is fair game. since this does not cover your transmissions people assume the states can rule, but it has not gone to court and since WIFI is operating at unregulated db levels for B and g and unregulated band for A,, I would not want to be on the states side.

[irregularjoe]

" Getting on a residential or business wifi connection that is unsecured is illegal."

Not true.

Anyone can leave a wifi source unsecured either diliberately or unintentionaly. And anyone can tap into it in the same respects.

I for one, along with many people, diliberately leave one of my networks freely open for anyone to use. It's called being a good neighbor.

Now I realize that the isp's probably don't like it, but I really don't care.

Edited February 6, 2007 by irregularjoe

[mikex]

In my reply legal was the fact that the ISP(s) usually have it in the terms of service that you will not share your connection with others.

There are two ways to look at this.

1- It is mine I pay for it! Yes but you also agree to the terms of service. If you are on a resellers plan with the ISP then you do what you want with your connection - under those terms of service.

2- I just plugged it in and thought it was secure?! Wrong! Linksys is the worlds largest WISP (wireless internet service provider) LOL. There equipment and that of Belkin, Netgear, and just about anyone else are plug and play by passing the security step with just a cursory nod. Why? They don't want Joe public calling them when they forget their encryption settings after they crash their wireless computer.

We ALL show educate those using wireless routers that someone can get on their connection, surf kiddie porn, and then the FBI will knock on the door of the person whose IP showed up. That door will belong to the person who has the wireless router. Then they will have some explaining to do. They may be able to get a lawyer and sue the maker of the wireless router, who may settle out just to keep their name out of the bad press.

One example used for open access points is ~ If you leave you door unlocked is it ok for me to go in your house uninvited?

Or because you left the access point unsecured that is my invitation? If so refer to the first example. As soon as someone says that then some ambulance chasing lawyer will use it as a defense when his lazy client decides to steal you TV instead of make an honest living.

It is not illegal to wardrive, riding to find open access points.

Sorry for the topic hijack. If the man has the money get him to spend it on a wifi card from his cell company or Sprint. If he travels in an RV to with a camper, do the satellite thing. There are satellite setups that track the satellite, no need for adjusting.

M

[irregularjoe]

In my reply legal was the fact that the ISP(s) usually have it in the terms of service that you will not share your connection with others.

There are two ways to look at this.

1- It is mine I pay for it! Yes but you also agree to the terms of service. If you are on a resellers plan with the ISP then you do what you want with your connection - under those terms of service.

2- I just plugged it in and thought it was secure?! Wrong! Linksys is the worlds largest WISP (wireless internet service provider) LOL. There equipment and that of Belkin, Netgear, and just about anyone else are plug and play by passing the security step with just a cursory nod. Why? They don't want Joe public calling them when they forget their encryption settings after they crash their wireless computer.

We ALL show educate those using wireless routers that someone can get on their connection, surf kiddie porn, and then the FBI will knock on the door of the person whose IP showed up. That door will belong to the person who has the wireless router. Then they will have some explaining to do. They may be able to get a lawyer and sue the maker of the wireless router, who may settle out just to keep their name out of the bad press.

One example used for open access points is ~ If you leave you door unlocked is it ok for me to go in your house uninvited?

Or because you left the access point unsecured that is my invitation? If so refer to the first example. As soon as someone says that then some ambulance chasing lawyer will use it as a defense when his lazy client decides to steal you TV instead of make an honest living.

It is not illegal to wardrive, riding to find open access points.

Sorry for the topic hijack. If the man has the money get him to spend it on a wifi card from his cell company or Sprint. If he travels in an RV to with a camper, do the satellite thing. There are satellite setups that track the satellite, no need for adjusting.

M

I catch your drift, mikex and understand what you are saying.

You make several interesting and probably correct points.

However....., I choose not to be subjected to the fear mentality that seems to be the current state of affairs in this country.

If you tap into my connection and decide to surf for kiddie porn,....well ...so be it.

On the other hand, if you just happen to need to check your email....., google some mozart concerto information, get a recipe for grilled halibut, check the weather, look for driving directions, or check into Besttechie.........then I'm your guy.

I'm pretty confident that the latter is much more prevelant than the former.

Either way though, I'm not going to worry about it. And as I said before, the ISP's monetary agenda is not mine.

Joe

[iccaros]

In my reply legal was the fact that the ISP(s) usually have it in the terms of service that you will not share your connection with others.

There are two ways to look at this.

1- It is mine I pay for it! Yes but you also agree to the terms of service. If you are on a resellers plan with the ISP then you do what you want with your connection - under those terms of service.

2- I just plugged it in and thought it was secure?! Wrong! Linksys is the worlds largest WISP (wireless internet service provider) LOL. There equipment and that of Belkin, Netgear, and just about anyone else are plug and play by passing the security step with just a cursory nod. Why? They don't want Joe public calling them when they forget their encryption settings after they crash their wireless computer.

We ALL show educate those using wireless routers that someone can get on their connection, surf kiddie porn, and then the FBI will knock on the door of the person whose IP showed up. That door will belong to the person who has the wireless router. Then they will have some explaining to do. They may be able to get a lawyer and sue the maker of the wireless router, who may settle out just to keep their name out of the bad press.

One example used for open access points is ~ If you leave you door unlocked is it ok for me to go in your house uninvited?

Or because you left the access point unsecured that is my invitation? If so refer to the first example. As soon as someone says that then some ambulance chasing lawyer will use it as a defense when his lazy client decides to steal you TV instead of make an honest living.

It is not illegal to wardrive, riding to find open access points.

Sorry for the topic hijack. If the man has the money get him to spend it on a wifi card from his cell company or Sprint. If he travels in an RV to with a camper, do the satellite thing. There are satellite setups that track the satellite, no need for adjusting.

M

This is why this is an important discussion and should have its own thread, but I will say this.

1. Your ISP requires that your do not share your service, which means its a contract Violation to not encrypt your Wireless.

2. "your" wireless signal traveled on my property, just like an apple tree that drops fruit on my side of the fence, since we know you can not control RF (or the average person can not)

We are not talking about breaking encryption (which is the same as breaking in your house), or even steeling the TV because the front door is unlocked (for which you loose something). We are talking about people using something that they also pay for in most cases. If cable and DLS companes were forced to be common carriers, as they should be, They would help you set it up , with an access point that allowed people to enter a account number and limited the usage to limited email and light browsing, load balance between the neighbors so bandwidth is not been taken up, but instead Version installs open wireless networks in peoples homes and then sues the owner (or turns them off) in case of incident.

there are ethical ways to "barrow" internet bandwidth with out causing an effect on the owner, or leave the owner at risk. but its not breaking the law.

[mikex]

Yeah law is the wrong word for me to use. Most cases are contract violations between the subscriber and the ISP. I try to educate all our users to the dangers of having an un-encrypted ap. This all goes with the explanation that just because you have a program on your computer does not mean you are protected, ie: norton is installed but expired.....OS has not had security updates since Elvis wore blue suede shoes. Ok that is a stretch but the point is there.

I work for a wireless internet service provider and I am a customer. I am torn between the two sides. As a customer you pay for it, it should be yours...You are under a contract so there are limitations on what you can do. As a provider of the service I do not want to provide service and not be compensated. I tell our customers if they want a wireless home network call me I can do everything over the phone most of the time. If they want to give the encryption key out beware the person can come by to use there network anytime. Yes there are higher encryption and authentication methods but for the casual user you want to make it simple. Locks are for honest people.

M

[irregularjoe]

Yeah law is the wrong word for me to use. Most cases are contract violations between the subscriber and the ISP. I try to educate all our users to the dangers of having an un-encrypted ap. This all goes with the explanation that just because you have a program on your computer does not mean you are protected, ie: norton is installed but expired.....OS has not had security updates since Elvis wore blue suede shoes. Ok that is a stretch but the point is there.

I work for a wireless internet service provider and I am a customer. I am torn between the two sides. As a customer you pay for it, it should be yours...You are under a contract so there are limitations on what you can do. As a provider of the service I do not want to provide service and not be compensated. I tell our customers if they want a wireless home network call me I can do everything over the phone most of the time. If they want to give the encryption key out beware the person can come by to use there network anytime. Yes there are higher encryption and authentication methods but for the casual user you want to make it simple. Locks are for honest people.

M

Very interesting comments.

My network will remain open though.

These discussions are great. That's what it's all about. Sharing opinions.