Cars Vs. Operating Systems

[mystified]

I have some friends who have an "Infiniti" luxury car (V-8, power everything, etc.). When it runs good, it's a really nice car to drive or ride in. However, they seem to have it in the shop more than on the road. The latest is a fuel injector which needs replacing. The cost? $1200 U.S. because the mechanic has to be specially trained, and have special tools, and has to remove the whole top of the engine just to get to the injectors. Of course, the shop suggests, since it's already apart, that they should go ahead and replace all 8 injectors (over $2000 total).

On the other hand, I used to have an old Ford pickup. Yeah, it rode kinda rough and had a few dents, but that thing just kept going. Got me from point 'A' to point 'B' without too much complaining.

Now, for operating systems. Since I've switched to XP, I consider it the Infiniti, and 98SE is the old Ford pickup. After my first encounter with Windows Updates on XP (some of you may remember my thread in the PC Help section), I finally had to reformat, put it back to 98SE just to get online, found out what I had done wrong, then reinstalled XP. Now, I went to the updates again, only this time I did it "right." I installed only the Express (4 downloads instead of 60), and did nothing else. When I restarted.....same as before. Whole system crashed, error messages, black screen with prompts instead of windows....etc. Finally, somehow I did find the restore point page in safe mode. Tried to restore, but crashed again upon restart. Anyhow, after much frustration it finally started in the restored mode. So much for windows updates on XP. I have ZoneAlarm and current, updated AVG, so I'll just call that good.

Next, I tried a fairly common game I paid for about a year ago ("Diamond Mine"). When I tried to run it, the system crashed (did it again when I tried to simulate W98....it didn't work and system crashed). Once I got it up and running, I uninstalled Diamond Mine. I'm kind of afraid to try Big Kahuna Reef.

In fact, I'm afraid of putting much of anything on this thing now. It works great for the internet, much faster, the overall appearance is much better, but it's just too DA**ED temeramental. When it runs OK, it's great, but I'm spending more time keeping it running than using it.

W98SE (the old Ford pickup), on the other hand, may be old....but at least it's somewhat stable. So, once I get working again, I'm going to buy a smaller HDD and install it as a slave, and put 98SE on it. That's where I'll keep a lot of my stuff.

As a final thought, I only have an old version of MS Works (4.5) for word processor and spreadsheet functions. My son wants me to put MS Office on (which I can't afford right now anyway), but when and if I do, it'll be with crossed fingers. Hopefully, XP won't complain about that, too.

OK.....end of XP rant.....I still like old Ford pickups better than Infiniti's

Edited December 14, 2006 by mystified

[hitest]

You may wish to consider using Open Office, it is a free Word replacement. Open Office is compatible with Word, you can open, save and create Word documents with it. I've used OO for several years. OO works just fine with XP.

Open Office

[mystified]

Open Office is compatible with Word

Actually, I do have OO (a friend gave me the CD). I had it installed once, but there were a number of conflicts with Word. When I tried to open Word documents, it wouldn't do it, or skewered them. I did some reading and found that others were having the same problem. In fact, one guy posted that he used Word on his computer, and his wife used OO on hers, but they couldn't open each other's documents. There seemed to be an attitude then of getting M$ to make Word compatible with OO. I'm wondering if maybe that hasn't happened? I haven't had OO installed for about a year, but do still have the CD.

Edited December 14, 2006 by mystified

[JDoors]

First thought: You're getting old -- "New-fangled cars and operating systems!"

Next thought: People have always had to make the choice between the latest and greatest (umm, not sure if 'greatest' applies to XP). Between sorted out and cutting edge. Between what's comfortable and what needs an entirely new skillset.

More thoughts:

The Ford and '9x may be relatively reliable, but at some point repairs become increasingly difficult due to a paucity of parts, or a lack of compatible software (and NO updates).

I think we tend to forget or let slide the problems older cars and OS's have or do have (How many times has '9x crashed over the years? Ever been left stranded, even if only temporarily, by the Ford?). We also forget or let slide the compromises we make to continue to use them (I can't use Apple software -- their latest versions will ONLY work with XP -- too many times I want to see a video and it won't play because it's in the latest format and no other option is given).

I'm still stickin' with '98 until I am forced to change. I hate, always have and always will hate, having to "call home" for permission to use a product I paid for (converts, don't bother with your justifications, I do not agree).

[isteve]

So what's it going to take to get you into this beautiful new Vista cruiser.

[mystified]

I'm still stickin' with '98 until I am forced to change. I hate, always have and always will hate, having to "call home" for permission to use a product I paid for (converts, don't bother with your justifications, I do not agree).

LOL.... I especially like the part about calling home for permission I'll keep XP for internet and a couple of things, but I still want a slave HDD with 98SE on it....I'll probably use it more than XP.....

[mystified]

So what's it going to take to get you into this beautiful new Vista cruiser.

Uh, a shotgun aimed at my back, an AK-47 aimed at my front, and a hand grenade down my pants....that oughtta do it

[robroy]

I prefer win2k to xp and am not even thinking of getting vista.

I use OO and word 97 without any problems opening the docs written on one in the other

[mystified]

I use OO and word 97 without any problems opening the docs written on one in the other

Actually, I was just letting off a little steam, here....didn't figure on learning something Maybe I'll give OO another go...can't hurt, and I guess the worst I can do is uninstall it. Thanks to all for bringing this up....

[Honda_Boy]

Well XP has to have been the OS I've had the least trouble from Windows wise. When I built my first computer 2 years ago I picked up XP Home SP2 OEM for it. Installed it, updated, installed all my games and all my crap, ran perfectly for a year and a half. I had to reinstall 98SE and ME on a regular basis. My old gateway cam with ME. I reinstalled it once every month or 2 and when I dropped it to 98SE yes it did work better but I still had to reinstall it ever 3-5 months.

Only reason I ever had to install XP again was when I blew up that first self built computer. Fried the motherboard so i just built a new system. Did a repair install so I keep my stuff. Ran fine for a while but I started to notice things were running slow so I bought a second hard drive to back some stuff up (thanks jimras) and reinstalled XP. Been running sweet as a nut for about 5 or 6 months now.

I consider 98SE my 85 Sunbird Fasthatch (ran OK but needed crap every now and then), ME my 88 Fiero 4 banger (biggest POS my brother ever owned needed a repair every time you looked at it $2000 car that ended up with $5500 in repairs) and XP as my 95 Civic EX (rarely needed anything). I'm leaving my hatchback out of this cause it has a swapped motor so it's been to heavily modified for comparison.

* just noticed you have SP1 that might be your problem. I've only used SP2

** let's throw the 03 PT Cruiser in the mix. It is the 98SE. Far better than a Fiero but holy crap that thing has been in the shop way more times than my old 95 Civic Coupe. My Civic 96 Hatch has seen the shop ONCE for a problem (major problem) and once for a modification (springs).

Edited December 14, 2006 by Honda_Boy

[hitest]

Open Office is compatible with Word

Actually, I do have OO (a friend gave me the CD). I had it installed once, but there were a number of conflicts with Word. When I tried to open Word documents, it wouldn't do it, or skewered them. I did some reading and found that others were having the same problem. In fact, one guy posted that he used Word on his computer, and his wife used OO on hers, but they couldn't open each other's documents. There seemed to be an attitude then of getting M$ to make Word compatible with OO. I'm wondering if maybe that hasn't happened? I haven't had OO installed for about a year, but do still have the CD.

Okay......things may have changed in the interim. Today if you download OO you should have no compatibility issues with word. There may be some compatibility issues with trying to open excel spreadsheets.

[bearskin]

well I know you don't want to hear this.

I'll stick with winme.

I perfer 2K but since I lost my disk I'll stay with what I got.

[screi]

well has i occurred to you that an old 98 machine might have more than a few issues with hardware...firmware...and software compatibility..?? trying to lay xp on top of that system is obviously a stretch...

i didn't see your machines spec's so maybe i'm missing something here but i doubt very few 98se to xp upgrades go well...or easily...

i've run machines as far back as dos 6.2 (or earlier actually) and xp is by far the best most stable albeit not perfect

wayne

[hitest]

i've run machines as far back as dos 6.2 (or earlier actually) and xp is by far the best most stable albeit not perfect

wayne

Heh, I thought I was in heaven with DOS 5.0:-) The good old days:-)

Yes, XP is a good operating system if maintained properly.

[shanenin]

well has i occurred to you that an old 98 machine might have more than a few issues with hardware...firmware...and software compatibility..?? trying to lay xp on top of that system is obviously a stretch...

i didn't see your machines spec's so maybe i'm missing something here but i doubt very few 98se to xp upgrades go well...or easily...

its still just x86 hardware. it should run xp just as well as something more modern. The only difference is speed. As to drivers, XP supports all of the older chipsets well. I personally don't see any problem with older hardware running xp.

[Honda_Boy]

Actually now that I think about it. I did install XP Home SP2 on that same Gateway I had ME and 98SE on. I did a fresh install and for the 30 days it was on there, nothing but smooth sailing. Now it's back to 98SE but since it is hardly ever on and is only used for playing Mega Solitaire by my mom, it'll run fine for a long time. I'm amazed my freind hasn't managed to screw up the eMachine I rebuilt and gave to him. I put some new parts and 98SE on that beast almost a year ago and he says it still runs OK. About a 7 year old machine too. I also had XP Home SP2 on it too before giving it to him......for 30 days. Do we see a pattern here. It ran alright. I guess SP1 Upgrade sucks but my OEM SP2 has been the best OS I've had in a while. I monkeyed with Fedora Core 4 and 5 Linux but couldn't find any real use for them.

*also my Laptop came with it's own OEM XP Home SP2 and it's been running great the whole time I've had it. Since it was an HP though I almost immediately wiped the drive and reinstalled Windwos cause I wanted absolutely NONE of that crap that was on it. Haven't had any probs but speed. Then again it's a Sempron 2800+ on a Radeon Xpress 200M chipset with 512MB of RAM. I'm not expecting it to be quite as fast as my Athlon 64 3500+, nForce 4 SLIx16, 1GB RAM, Twin GeForce 7600GT system.

Edited December 15, 2006 by Honda_Boy

[JDoors]

... xp is by far the best most stable albeit not perfect. ...

Here's the thing: I used to moderate a help board back when '9x was the new-fangled cutting edge OS, after having been a DOS and 3.x moderator. (And ain't that a hoot just thinking about '9x being cutting edge?)

We'd often get flamers saying Apple this, Apple that. And you know what I did? I went to the Apple boards and counted the posts. There were just as many as in the Windows boards.

I bet, I know, it's plain and obvious, that help boards did not disappear or diminish once XP became the standard. You rarely see any questions concerning '9x because the OS itself is becoming rare, yet, there they are, question after question after question, almost all concerning XP.

And Apple boards are busy too, although I don't know why since Apple software HAS no problems.

[garmanma]

Edited December 15, 2006 by garmanma

[mystified]

Well, thought I'd resurrect this thread to say I'm back to 98SE....permanently....until such time as I can afford a new computer. This is not to say I don't appreciate all the help I got from many of you in upgrading to XP....I really DO appreciate it. However, I don't think it was the advice I got or the actions I took that caused the problem. I believe it to be a hardware issue.

I kept having video problems, and when it crashed it kept saying my video card has a problem and is causing the system instability (Radeon 7500). I went to the ATI site looking for a newer driver, and found it (didn't d/l it....just bookmarked the site). Then, I read a post by someone else having problems installing the same driver I found. In fact, that user ended up reformatting....couldn't resolve the issue.

So, considering how many reformats I've already done, and have installed XP twice (counting two other times about a year ago....I'm out of activations), and considering that this computer has other compatibility issues with XP (audio and printer, to name two), I just don't think this system is going to work right with XP.

I have now reformatted (again), and reinstalled 98SE. It's now stable again, and not having any problems. I'll admit it isn't as fast, and the appearance isn't as good, but it works. So, it's time for the old mechanic's rule: If it works, don't fix it! Still, I've got all the 98SE updates, the newest AVG and ZoneAlarm, and AdAware, Spybot S&D, SpywareGuard and SpywareBlaster....all current and updated....so I feel like I'm as "internet-safe" as I can be. Besides, now I have some games back that wouldn't work on XP

Thanks again for all the help....it just wasn't meant to be.....

BY THE WAY -- I also reinstalled Open Office, and it's working great....thanks again to all for suggesting it

[shanenin]

As to the fastness, i would think 98se would be much faster then XP on similar hardware. Xp needs more power and resources just to run its self. If you are content with 98se and it does everything you want it to, their is nothing wrong with it.

Edited December 16, 2006 by shanenin

[Honda_Boy]

he may be referring to the fact that 98SE takes bloody ages to start while XP loads insanely fast. I have found that shutting down is the exact opposite. I had one machine that when I pushed shutdown it was off in less than 10 seconds literally. ALL my XP machines (and all the 98SE machines that temporarily had XP) take freakin forever to shutoff.