mystified Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 I’ve posted this a couple of times in forums in the last couple of years. It’s a bit long, but I think it bears repeating. With winter here (or, very close), the need / desire to keep warm becomes important. However, there’s one way of staying warm that bothers me....space heaters.I’ve done a lot of electrical work in my life, and know all to well not only the comfort that can come from one, but also the danger. I’ve personally been in two mobile homes in my life where fires would have started had I not been right there (it's just as true in houses as in mobile homes). In both cases, the cord burned through right where it connects to the plug. For what it’s worth, that is the weakest point in a space heater (when unplugging one, always pull on the plug itself....not on the cord!). Also, for those who remember an older TV show called “Get Christy Love,” the star (Teresa Graves) was killed some years ago....she went to sleep in her upstairs bedroom and left a space heater going downstairs. Right now, on our local news here, there have been three house fires in our area directly as a result of space heaters in the last two weeks. One was a fatal (a 3-year-old girl was killed).Another point is the false sense of security people can get from plugging one into a GFCI outlet (Ground Fault Circuit Interruptor). These are the ones you most often find near kitchen and bathroom counters, in the garage, and outdoors. They are designed to prevent a person from being electrocuted in case the power shorts against the frame of whatever they’re using, and they work well for that. However, they sense a problem from ground to hot....but not from neutral to hot (in all outlets, there are two slots....the bigger one is neutral and the smaller is hot....but there is a third round hole below or sometimes above these slots....that one is ground). One of the houses I happened to be in when it started had the space heater plugged into the bathroom GFCI outlet, and it did not trip. There is a solution for this, although it could be a bit pricey (still, how much is your life worth?). Any electrician can install what is called an AFCI (Arc Fault Circuit Interruptor) at the breaker panel to protect any circuit where a space heater may be plugged in. The cost of the breaker is usually around $35 - $40 U.S., plus the cost of installation. These will sense any arc between hot and neutral and will trip instantly (turn power off), and they can be used in conjunction with GFCI outlets. In other words, an AFCI breaker could be installed to protect a cicuit which has GFCI outlets on it. It does not interfere with the GFCI at all.Finally, my last thought is this -- NEVER, NEVER go to sleep with a space heater running, and never leave your house or apartment with a space heater running. Of course, they should also not be used near anything flammable (clothes, flammbable liquids, etc.). Use them only when you need them, while you’re right there, and turn them off (or, better, unplug them) as soon as you’ll no longer be nearby. This is not to say they shouldn’t be used (I use one in the bathroom, but I follow my own advice), but just that people should be aware of the potential problems with them. OK, I’ll get off my soap-box now, lol. Just want to pass this on so all can have a safer winter.Best.....Larry Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDoors Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 Don't know if we're in the same area or if it's just that the problem is universal, there was a recent fire in the news here too, caused by a space heater. In addition to your advice, make sure your smoke detector is working, also the CO2 detector if you have one (and you should if you have gas or oil fired appliances). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
garmanma Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 Also, don't use your stove for a heater. We had one genius here actually use a charcoal grill. Make sure there's no birds nest in the heater flu, and clean the creosote out of the chimeneyMark Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDoors Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 Also, don't use your stove for a heater. ... On this, I'm confused. Say you're slow-cooking some ribs. You might have your oven set under 300 degrees for hours. Now, why can't you set your oven to 300 degrees for a few hours to heat your house in an emergency? What's the difference? Do the ribs absorb the CO2 or something, making it safe to run the oven for cooking but not for heat? When the power goes out 'round here, and it goes at least once a month, I use the oven, set at a low temp, to keep from freezing to death. Should I put a slab of ribs in there first? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
garmanma Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 (edited) Also, don't use your stove for a heater. ... On this, I'm confused. Say you're slow-cooking some ribs. You might have your oven set under 300 degrees for hours. Now, why can't you set your oven to 300 degrees for a few hours to heat your house in an emergency? What's the difference? Do the ribs absorb the CO2 or something, making it safe to run the oven for cooking but not for heat? When the power goes out 'round here, and it goes at least once a month, I use the oven, set at a low temp, to keep from freezing to death. Should I put a slab of ribs in there first? Sounds good to meMark Edited November 30, 2006 by garmanma Quote Link to post Share on other sites
blim Posted December 1, 2006 Report Share Posted December 1, 2006 Thanks for starting this thread, Larry and thanks to all for the great reminders!mmmmmm, ribs...Liz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Carnevil Posted December 1, 2006 Report Share Posted December 1, 2006 Just get yourself a fat girl to keep you warm. I'm kidding. Those are good tips though Larry. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
papa Posted December 1, 2006 Report Share Posted December 1, 2006 This is great stuff! It is sad that so many people die from this event. I have installed a carbon monoxide and gas dector in my house along with our smoke alarms. Put it next to the furnace area for early detection. These things can save lives!Thanks, Larry!Papa Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mystified Posted December 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2006 Dang! Now ya got me wanting to cook up a messa ribs, but all I have in the freezer is hamburger and chicken. Oh, well, see ya when I get back from the store Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thesidekickcat Posted December 17, 2006 Report Share Posted December 17, 2006 (edited) Sorry about just now playing catch up on 2 or 3 weeks of threads.This is such an important thread. Thanks for reminding everyone to use heaters etc safely!!!Be sure there is plenty of open space around them!!! Read how much the manufacturer says to do, then add an additional foot or more to what it says, just to be safe!!!By the way, whatever happened to the law requiring all space heaters to have tipover turn offs? This law was in effect in the early 70's. But we bought a couple of oil filled radiant heat space heaters this year and also got a couple of free little multiple-setting fan forced heaters (which we use just for the fan only setting to spread the heat from the oil filled one around the room). None of them have tipover turn off thingys!!! Long time brand too, which I can't think of right now and to lazy to get up and look. Was absolutely amazed that they didn't have it. We are verrrrrry careful of any heaters, electric, and wood stoves etc, but still would be scared to use these if we had kids or pets running around!!! May I add this warning to the thread, to never ever use a generator in an enclosed space, even a garage with the doors open.A local family is now in the hospital with carbon monoxide poisoning due to one left on in a garage during a recent power outage. Even with garage doors left open, the whole family is very ill, especially the youngsters. So so sad, so preventable....!!! Have CO2 detector that has battery backup, not just ac as some just plug in with no backup, and properly locate them according to the manual instructions. Of course the generator should be placed far enough away from your or neighbors house, garage, etc to not allow any fumes (remember no odor to CO2) inside. And it should always be on only when you are able to fully supervise it, and not left on and ignored, and certainly not left on while sleeping. Have plenty of blankets or sleeping bags on hand for overnight use to stay warm instead of running a generator at night during a power outage (or take family to a motel outside outage area to stay warm if needed). And don't worry about refrig/freezer food, your lives are worth more than some lost food, and most likely your food will still be ok if you do use generator a couple of times a day and keep refrig/freezer doors closed!!! Also if you are going to use a generator, be sure to store your gasoline in proper vented containers...not those rinky dink gas cans you tote to station when you run out of gas for car or lawn mower...and be careful where you store them to not have fire/explosion hazzard for instance do not put anywhere near the gas pilot light on the water heater in garage etc.Even with motorhomes in campgrounds someone running their generator can sicken, or even kill, a nearby rving family, or themselves, with fumes coming into the units through vents/windows/etc. So be careful folks!!! PatGod bless everyone Edited December 17, 2006 by thesidekickcat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDoors Posted December 17, 2006 Report Share Posted December 17, 2006 (edited) ... whatever happened to the law requiring all space heaters to have tipover turn offs? This law was in effect in the early 70's. But we bought a couple of oil filled radiant heat space heaters this year and also got a couple of free little multiple-setting fan forced heaters (which we use just for the fan only setting to spread the heat from the oil filled one around the room). None of them have tipover turn off thingys!!! ... Heaters that get hot enough to ignite surrounding material or have exposed heating elements need the tipover switch, oil-filled and forced air (the heating element is enclosed) don't get hot enough to ignite surrounding material. Nice add concerning generators. I really would have thought that running one in a garage with the door open would be "safe enough." But then, I'm pretty dumb. ------ Edited December 17, 2006 by JDoors Quote Link to post Share on other sites
robroy Posted December 17, 2006 Report Share Posted December 17, 2006 We had 5 people die here in a bad fire. They were living in 2 campers pulled together and heated by 4 kerosene heaters. Another person in a mobile home almost died from carbon monoxide poisoning from a kerosene heater also. Those things are very dangerous, so anyone out there using them please be very careful. keep the wicks clean and trimmed so they burn properly and make sure that they are well away from anything flammable. I personally hate having to go into houses that have had a fire to see if they need to be condemned or not. Everyone take care and have a wonderful holiday season Quote Link to post Share on other sites
irregularjoe Posted December 17, 2006 Report Share Posted December 17, 2006 four words for people that use space heaters-Smoke alarmsFire insurance Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thesidekickcat Posted December 18, 2006 Report Share Posted December 18, 2006 (edited) Here is a link to a news story about how many many people in Washington state, and also mentioning the Gresham Oregon (Eastern suburb of Portland) family I referred to earlier, are suffering from carbon monoxide poisoning from trying to stay warm during recent storm and it's power outages. Heartbreaking that it has killed one and others including children are so sick.Many suffering from carbon monoxide poisoning due to improper generator/charcoal grill use Another story on the storm, including another safety hazzard, CANDLES, that killed 2 people on Oregon Coast. So many times fires are caused by candles....I wonder if they have now surpassed ciggarettes (sp?) as cause of most domestic fires?The story also brings up propane heaters, another big safety issue. And I know one gal that heats her drafty old farmhouse with wood stove when she has wood available and the rest of the time uses propane heaters....and sleeps with them on...yes multiple ones!!! She wont listen to me or anyone else...says house is so drafty, and it's broken windows etc will keep her safe...or not...she doesn't care she says!!! Yikes!!! Many still blacked out after deadly stormStay safe folks!!!PatGod bless everyone Edited December 18, 2006 by thesidekickcat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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