oh ya, about 400 times OMG I am toooooo impatient for my own good. Sitting here, I re-read your post and noticed of course, I had 5 or 6 open IE windows. So, I closed them all and then enlarged and maximized the problem one, and closed it. rebooted just to be sure AND thank you - i was blind and now i see Thanks terrorist, I should have known this, but, well ...