JDoors Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 Support your local businessman or get it done cheap ... always a dilemma. Suspension's aren't rocket science so I'd trust fellow car nuts to do the work, but you'll still need an alignment.----- My Explorer was "sticking." It has an automatic so when you release the brakes it should creep, right? It wasn't. I'd step on the gas and it'd "stick" for a second before releasing and moving forward. Ahh, brakes. Ahh, four wheel disk brakes (had to buy the "Sport," didn't I?). I keep an eye on the pad thickness and always had plenty, but once on the rack I could see the disks were very badly grooved (along with the pads, which I couldn't see just by peeking at their edges). So apparently the pistons were extended quite far to push the pads against the worn disks and were sticking. Four new rotors, new pads, rebuild, fluid flush, blah, blah, blah, and now I'm broke. Gotta admit it's nice to have "new" brakes, what a difference. Funny how things can go bad so slowly you don't even notice, until you fix it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Honda_Boy Posted January 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 No kiddin, I had no idea how bad my ride had been getting (except at 65+, my wheels were so out of balance that it'd shake a ton) but after the new tires and an alignment, it was like night and day. The ride was smoother, stickier (as in it gripped better), and quieter.One guy is offering me some Integra rear brakes off of a 92. I'd rather have 94+ but a complete setup for $100 is a good price. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bubba Bob Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 Why four wheel disc brakes? More expense and trouble than it's worth. The backs do realativly little. Id rather put money into buying top quality suspension parts.Hell. My car has four wheel drums and stops on a.... Well. Nevermind Really though. Do people on Tennspeed see a lot of benefit from all four discs? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
isteve Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 My last three cars have had disk at all four and if nothing else changing pads takes at least a third of the time of drums. Also I'm guessing they are less rotating mass. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDoors Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 Why four wheel disc brakes? More expense and trouble than it's worth. The backs do realativly little. Id rather put money into buying top quality suspension parts.Hell. My car has four wheel drums and stops on a.... Well. Nevermind Really though. Do people on Tennspeed see a lot of benefit from all four discs? Jeez, how old IS your car? My first car had front disks back in 1975! Disk brakes are more heat and water resistant. That big, enclosed cast iron drum can't dissipate heat or water like an exposed rotor can. No problem in day-to-day driving, but those qualities are important for enthusiast driving, higher or sustained speeds such as on highways, in inclement weather, or on hilly or mountainous terrain. The only advantage of drum brakes is they are cheaper to produce. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Honda_Boy Posted January 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 Discs also provide better stopping power. Many people who've done the conversion note that the braking is much stronger. Rear discs do more than you think. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bubba Bob Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 (edited) Discs also provide better stopping power. Many people who've done the conversion note that the braking is much stronger. Rear discs do more than you think.Me thinks anyone that claims this had faulty self adjusting drums (okay, theres one BIG disadvantage for drums - did the auto adjuster come from the factory working? ) and weak rear brakes. You shouldnt be able to tell a bit of difference (if the drums are working correctly) untill they start heating up. Which is difficult to do seeings how little they do im comparison to the front brakes. If if the rears brake that much 'harder' from swapping to discs, the braking ratio will be way off. One emergency braking situation on a wet road and you're in a tree. Don't forget too, if your car has ABS on the back at all, it'll be less effective. (as in treating both rears as one wheel - could allow for some lockage) I know I know. Everyone on every import site does the rear disc swap with no problems, and every says how much it helps... But a LOT of just plain wrong info is passed off on internet forums as "common knowledge". Be carefull. Anyhow - J - 1972. My daily driver anyhow. Edited January 10, 2009 by Bubba Bob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Honda_Boy Posted January 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 No ABS on a 96 Civic CX. Still though, typically discs provide better braking power. I plan to eventually swap the front brakes to Integra brakes as well since they are bigger. Stock CX discs are really small. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Honda_Boy Posted January 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 Guess what. I say I'm gonna do something to my car and well:I'm actually doing it. Going to buy rotors and pads tomorrow, then call my mechanic and ask him how much to do the conversion and when he can do it. I really need to get it done ASAP cause that right drum is making some bad scraping noises now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDoors Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 That's weird how clean the suspension arms are while the rotors have such a thick coating of rust. Will ya have to replace the rotors? Won't you also have to change the parking/emergency brake mechanism? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bubba Bob Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 Id keep those rotors. Rust = friction = amazing stopping powers Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Honda_Boy Posted January 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 That's weird how clean the suspension arms are while the rotors have such a thick coating of rust. Will ya have to replace the rotors? Won't you also have to change the parking/emergency brake mechanism?It's natural for the rotors to be rusted. Go to a new car lot and most will have rusted rotors. The guy had just cleaned the trailing arms though so that's why they are so clean. I won't have to change the e-brake but I will have to change the e-brake cable, which I have. I have to have new pads and the rotors are getting replaced. I just talked with my mechanic and he says that you don't actually have to change the trailing arms which I've always been told I needed to do. He said there are some tamper proof screws on it which is why most people just change out the whole thing. he's got the stuff to undo the spindles from the trailing arms so I can just use the ones that came stock on my car. The advantage in that is it keeps the alignment straight and I guess in my case, newer trailing arms. The ones I bought were off of a 92 Integra.I have to wait 2 weeks to get them on since my mechanic is booked right now (he works by appointment). I'm dropping it off the 28th and will probably drive my dad's Tacoma for a day or 2. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Honda_Boy Posted January 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 OK, now my fuel mileage has gone down the toilet. It's lookin like 20-23MPG. I'm not sure if it's the bitter cold we had there for a few days or what. I'm gonna buy some stuff at O'Reilly's tomorrow. I'm gonna buy what I need to swap the brakes and then get some oil, a filter and some crush rings. I'm hoping an oil change will at least help it a little cause lord knows it needs it bad. I'm also going to ask Jimmy about some of the problems and see if I can get him to check a few things while he's got it for the brakes. Man I just really wish some money would come my way just to get all the maintenance out of the way. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDoors Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 I'm not a big fan of "additives" but if it's just a fuel injector that's not closing well due to some particulate matter maybe a "fuel injection cleaner" additive (to the fuel tank) could help? However, I know my Explorer's gas mileage drops precipitously during frigid weather or in deep snow (not that THAT'S a problem for you). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
isteve Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Winter milage can go down due to longer warm up times and if your car is running to cold it may stay in a warm up cycle (kind of like choke with a carburetor). Also if you change the air intake to a cool air system this may happen because you never get warm air from engine compartment. I would guess that may even get a little boost in horsepower in the cold dry air also. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Honda_Boy Posted January 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 (edited) Well I typically get 26MPG in cold weather but suddenly it dropped buy I may not be getting as bad mileage as I thought. It's still around 24 though. I think it was those 13-24 degree weather days that did it.I don't have a cold air intake. I have a short ram intake so I still get some warmer air from the bay. I have noticed that sometimes after it's been running a while, even with it's problems, it's been pulling hard if I get on it. When I dyno'd at 148WHP and 105WTQ, it was in Heatsoak conditions (95 degree day in the infield of a race track with over a 1000 cars there with some cars on the track making the temp really around 105) so I'm sure after all the maintenance is taken care of, I could probably get higher WHP and WTQ numbers in cooler weather. Edited January 20, 2009 by Honda_Boy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Honda_Boy Posted January 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Ok, apparently I had less fuel than I thought cause I filled up today with only 198 miles on the trip-odo and put 9.3 gallons in ....... that's about 21-22MPG, the absolute worst I've ever gotten... EVER! The worst before was 23MPG when I was TRYING to get kill the mileage (I thought I had some bad fuel).Looks like my tax return this year is actually going to be worth something so I guess I'm gonna use that money for repairs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Honda_Boy Posted January 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 Well, i may have hit a snag with the brake swap. I was randomly surfing InLineFour.com for some maintenance parts (great place for OEM Honda stuff and aftermarket as well) and I came across something called a Proportioning Valve in the OEM Section. In the description, it said "a must have for cars with drum to rear disc conversions". So I got to looking it up. I'm not entirely sure what it does but I heard that the brake pedal could be soft after a rear disc swap (having to push it further which is the exact opposite of what I expected). Some say a proportioning valve swap fixes that (I believe mine is a 30/40, and the one recommended is a 40/40, whatever the hell that means), some say a bigger master cylinder/brake booster is the fix. Some say swap both, some say swap neither so I'm confused. But from what I looked up, most of the people were swapping front and rear brakes while I'm keeping the stock small CX brakes and using old DA9 Integra Brakes.If it turns out that I REALLY should swap the stuff, I may have to hit up a junkyard for that crap cause I ain't buyin none of it new. The valve alone on InLineFour was like $165. If I can get away with running the stock stuff for a while I run with that and swap the rest later. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
isteve Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 Not having the correct proportioning valve can cause bad handling problems under braking. You want more braking in the front, when braking weight gets transferred to the front of the car lightening the back end. To much back brake can cause the back end to slide out. Of course most cars have bigger brake calipers and disk in the front and the valve just ensures that when you step on the brake pedal the correct amount of fluid goes to the brakes. Back brakes usually need less fluid because of size.There is a fairly good chance that the proportions on your car now is not that far off. If you plan on racing solo or just playing on track days give one of the companies that sell drum to disk upgrades a call and ask them what need to be done. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Honda_Boy Posted January 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 Well, According to a fella on Honda-Tech (I made a thread on there), the 96 Civic CX and 99 Civic Si both have the same Proportioning valve. The Si has 4-wheel disc with larger front brakes. The only difference is it has a larger master cylinder. He said I should be fine and not worry too much on it but suggests that when I can, I should probably swap the front brakes out with Si or EX brakes and get an Si or EX master cylinder and brake booster. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Honda_Boy Posted January 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Dropping the car off tomorrow to have the brake swap done. I'll be driving a 98 Toyota Tacoma 2WD 4cyl 5-Speed for the next coupla days. Not sure if I'll get it back Thursday or Friday as I may not have time to pick it up Thursday. I'd have to find someone to give me a ride to the shop to get it since my parents would be at work the only time I could go. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Honda_Boy Posted January 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Car should already be done but since I didn't have time to go get it before work, I'm still driving the Tacoma. I'll have to wait till after class tomorrow. I also talked with my mechanic about the problems I was having and he thinks it's a simple fix. We'll find out soon. I can't wait to get my car back.And because I just don't wanna do it myself in this crap, cold weather, I asked him to change the oil too. I mean heck, he's got a heated shop. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDoors Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Try working on your car when it's below zero. I gave that %$# up a LONG time ago! Don't wear out your pads on the first day! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Honda_Boy Posted January 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Well, the idle issue is fixed. While Jimmy was working on the car, he adjusted the IACV I believe and problem. My car's running better and stopping a little a better. I have to put my foot into it a little more though. Discs take more fluid than drums. I just need to get an EX Master cylinder and I also plan to get stainless steel braided brake lines too which will also stiffen up the pedal. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDoors Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 Because of the way they work disc brakes should take less , not more pedal travel. Could be the effect of the smaller-than-OEM master cylinder, or an air bubble that'll hopefully work its way out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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