Do You Care About Artist's Opinions?

[snyper]

So you don't mind a good song even if the lyrics contain the opposite of what you believe in?

Hmmm, most kids that listen to rap music are not going to go out and rape their mother or shoot babies or what other crap thats been said to sell records, so to some degree people dont listen or care...its only when they start talking to newspapers and on the tv that annoys me...

Edited August 1, 2006 by snyper

[Honda_Boy]

So you don't mind a good song even if the lyrics contain the opposite of what you believe in?

I can really see what you mean there cause I love Queensryche's 2 Operation: Mindcrime albums. They both say basically that the government is feeding us a bunch of BS and that the "Facist" need to be eliminated and in one song they talk about burning the white house down BUT these 2 albums are Concept albums telling stories and the singer is actually playing the role of the main character.

[snyper]

I can really see what you mean there cause I love Queensryche's 2 Operation: Mindcrime albums. They both say basically that the government is feeding us a bunch of BS and that the "Facist" need to be eliminated and in one song they talk about burning the white house down BUT these 2 albums are Concept albums telling stories and the singer is actually playing the role of the main character

Thats the exact same MO of many young artists today, and i feel its cynical if they are not been sincere about what they say just to sell records. (im not commenting on this group as i never heard of them)

[jcl]

I'm not sure I can agree that only "dissident" music is "interesting," but I sure can't deny the apparent trends.

Yeah, I didn't really phrase that post well. The gist of what I meant to say was that I think you're seeing more activist artists because (1) we're in a era of increasing social and political unrest, and (2) we're just coming out of an era relative calm. So you have the artists reflecting society by becoming increasingly political (so you aren't just a curmudgeon) and that contrasts sharply with recent history. The bit about artistic styles was probably a coincidence: it just happened that the '70s popularized art forms that were useless for activism (antiwar disco!), so you were less likely to see activists in mainstream art.

On the other hand, it's all relative. If you were an economic activist -- capitalist or socialist or whatever -- the '80s and '90s were probably the 'interesting' period while the 2000s are more boring. If you were in the USSR, well.... Still, I think the art world as a whole in the US is more socially active today than it was over the last couple decades.

[jsbowen]

So you don't mind a good song even if the lyrics contain the opposite of what you believe in?

Hmmm, most kids that listen to rap music are not going to go out and rape their mother or shoot babies or what other crap thats been said to sell records, so to some degree people dont listen or care...its only when they start talking to newspapers and on the tv that annoys me...

Yes, but a growing number of young folks are getting into financial trouble by trying to live the lifestyle that is portrayed by music videos and concerts, as well as many athletes. This would indicate that artists/athletes have influential powers over a growing demographic.

Personally, I'd like to see more artists/athletes discussing mutual funds and high interest CD's (the certificate of deposit kind) than displaying all the 'bling' while attempting to have an thoughtful opinion on politics.

[Honda_Boy]

just so ya know snyper, Queensryche ain't young. They formed in 82 and the first O:M album was released in 88 and the O:M2 was released earlier this year. Also I like Pagan's Mind (from Norway) despite their 2nd and 3rd album are saying that the Human race was genetically engineered by an Alien race called the Cyanide Aliens and placed on this planet. Do I believe that, no. It's still good music though. Also they don't believe that either. Those two albums are almost considered concept albums too. They are just telling Sci-Fi ish stories. It's progressive Power metal so it's gonna be kinda odd.

Edited August 1, 2006 by Honda_Boy

[Bubba Bob]

Hmmm, most kids that listen to rap music are not going to go out and rape their mother or shoot babies or what other crap thats been said to sell records, so to some degree people dont listen or care...its only when they start talking to newspapers and on the tv that annoys me...

No, but they drag their pants at the knees, do drugs, carry guns, use bad english, carry excessive "bling", and the list goes on....

Oh, wait, maybe that's "societies" fault. No, no, the "man" is keeping them down. Wait! Better yet it's a world wide conspiracy.

Edited August 1, 2006 by Bubba Bob

[thesidekickcat]

Yes to whoever (Marty? and was it even in this thread?) asked, Do we not have freedom of speech here? Yes we do, and we have fought to keep our freedom of speech, but that freedom also gives us the freedom to not only disagree with it but to not listen to it if we so choose.

So who gives the celebrities the Power to Influence by weight of celebrity status others with whatever they say? Especially if it is not a part of their art but just their own views? The media reports whatever they say or do, because people seem to be fascinated with anything and everything a celebrity says or does! If people didn't care to hear about it the media would stop reporting it as News! How come so much of our news is devoted to some kooky celebrity doings or sayings anyhow? Why does anyone care to have so much fluff news anyhow? I'd say it is our fault for paying attention to such nonsense instead of voicing our opinion to the media outlet that we don't care to hear such nonsense spouting by someone who most often is a big hypocrite anyhow!!! They don't walk their talk for the most part so why does anyone give any serious consideration of what they say?

Funny how this thread made me think of Peter, Paul and Mary versus Hanoi Jane and all the discussions of one ok but not other during the 60's.

This thread seems to be mostly talking about music artists and whether to buy their stuff if you find the artist's views repugnant, I'd say it would be more apropos to decide based on the content of the music as that is what you are spending your time listening to...how can it be "good music" if it is radically opposed to your values, or your politics, or your family principles etc? As for the artists real life and media play up comments...depends how much you disagree with those comments or lifestyle to be a factor in buying an album.

Also do you apply the same standards for other things you buy or look at or listen to besides music, such as paintings, books, magazines, tv shows, or movies, or anything else you use? If not then why not?

Pat

God bless everyone

[JDoors]

... This thread seems to be mostly talking about music artists and whether to buy their stuff if you find the artist's views repugnant, I'd say it would be more apropos to decide based on the content of the music as that is what you are spending your time listening to...how can it be "good music" if it is radically opposed to your values, or your politics, or your family principles etc? As for the artists real life and media play up comments...depends how much you disagree with those comments or lifestyle to be a factor in buying an album.

Also do you apply the same standards for other things you buy or look at or listen to besides music, such as paintings, books, magazines, tv shows, or movies, or anything else you use? If not then why not?

Pat

God bless everyone

I was mostly talking about music 'cause I have a decision to make on a music purchase, but yes, the issue applies elsewhere (movies in particular). Hmm ... Some movie stars are certifiably bat-poo crazy, I can't stand to see them interviewed or read anything they have to say, but they are SO great at what brought them fame in the first place I can manage to enjoy their work anyway; Susan Sarandon for example.

On the other hand some actors (to expand the discussion to include TV) are NOT so great that their performances transcend their ... well their poopy-head thoughts; Richard Dean Anderson for example. Those actors are NOT great and I cannot watch their work without being reminded of how much they suck as people (OK, that's not fair, let's say instead how much I disagree with their views).

SO! I love Pink (the artist) and I can overlook her naivete! Yippee! I'm a'gettin' the new CD!

As for other media those artists aren't given the publicity or attention that actors and musicians "enjoy," so I can't think, off hand, of an example where I've "boycotted" their works.

[JDoors]

Hmmm, most kids that listen to rap music are not going to go out and rape their mother or shoot babies or what other crap thats been said to sell records, so to some degree people dont listen or care...its only when they start talking to newspapers and on the tv that annoys me...

Have to agree with some of the others, they may not be bustin' a cap in yo behind, but many ARE definitely admiring and emulating other aspects of the lifestyle espoused in rap.

Which I find hilarious because with few exceptions rappers have had no worse a life than tens of millions of other kids. "Ooo, I was poor, the cops harassed me when I broke the law, there were gangs around, I had relationship problems, etc." Yeah, you and ten million other kids bub. The only difference is you're rich now, and THEY'RE still poor, so what's your point?

[JDoors]

I can really see what you mean there cause I love Queensryche's 2 Operation: Mindcrime albums. They both say basically that the government is feeding us a bunch of BS and that the "Facist" need to be eliminated and in one song they talk about burning the white house down BUT these 2 albums are Concept albums telling stories and the singer is actually playing the role of the main character.

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... Also I like Pagan's Mind (from Norway) despite their 2nd and 3rd album are saying that the Human race was genetically engineered by an Alien race called the Cyanide Aliens and placed on this planet. Do I believe that, no. It's still good music though. Also they don't believe that either. ...

Well, look at Orwell's "1984." It said essentially that the government's power has/is/will destroy freedom and humanity itself. Can't say I ever felt that he was some "out there" radical trying to destroy our way of life. So ... why do I have that feeling about some of the artists out there now, when they're saying essentially the same thing?

Food for thought.

------

I don't think I'd compare sci-fi fantasy to political activism, and yeah, whether they BELIEVE what they're saying or not is an important point, as far as this discussion goes.

Edited August 2, 2006 by JDoors

[JDoors]

... The gist of what I meant to say was that I think you're seeing more activist artists because (1) we're in a era of increasing social and political unrest, and (2) we're just coming out of an era relative calm. .... Still, I think the art world as a whole in the US is more socially active today than it was over the last couple decades.

I dunno (and I don't mean to be hypercritical). What was that "era of relative calm" of which you speak? There was PLENTY of political dissent, it just wasn't (have to be specific) left-wing radicalism. It was the right-wing that was dissatisfied (there was that so-called "vast right-wing conspiracy" doing all the hating then).

Maybe right-wingers have no performance talent?

Oh, wait, they do, they just get shouted down. Look at the vilification of right-wing artists such as Charlton Heston, who's vast and mostly uncritcized career suddenly took a back seat to his political views. There are dozens of others (Bruce Willis, that Magnum PI guy, Mel Gibson, etc.) whose careers are hurt by their right-wing views.

In my opinion it just demonstrates the intolerance of the left, but that's political speech and that's not allowed.

[JDoors]

... Personally, I'd like to see more artists/athletes discussing mutual funds and high interest CD's (the certificate of deposit kind) than displaying all the 'bling' while attempting to have an thoughtful opinion on politics.

That cracks me up.

I picture Wall Street brokers with their pants down-low, bling a-twinkling, slammed Mercedes in the lot, representin' their companys with hand signs, bobbin' their heads to Wall Street Rap!

I don't listen to rap ... is there any that doesn't promote the gangsta lifestyle?

[Bubba Bob]

I picture Wall Street brokers with their pants down-low, bling a-twinkling, slammed Mercedes in the lot, representin' their companys with hand signs, bobbin' their heads to Wall Street Rap!

Ha! THat'll be the day I decide to retire in South America.

Anyway, there is always Chrsitan Rap, and of course most* of Will Smith's stuff. In fact, in atleast one song I know of his, he criticizes the typical thugish, rap "artist".

[Honda_Boy]

I don't think I'd compare sci-fi fantasy to political activism, and yeah, whether they BELIEVE what they're saying or not is an important point, as far as this discussion goes.

Basically all I was saying you don't have to believe in/agree with what an artists says to like their music. WHether it be their actual views or just what the music itself says.

[jcl]

I dunno (and I don't mean to be hypercritical). What was that "era of relative calm" of which you speak? There was PLENTY of political dissent, it just wasn't (have to be specific) left-wing radicalism. It was the right-wing that was dissatisfied (there was that so-called "vast right-wing conspiracy" doing all the hating then).

*shrug* Nothing happened in the '90s that I would considered real unrest.[0] There was dissent, of course, but I don't think it rose above the background level. The war between the GOP and Clinton I would classify as political theater. Entertaining but unimportant. You didn't see Republicans taking to the streets by the hundreds of thousands month after month demanding that Clinton be impeached and you definitely didn't see popular artists releasing songs and whatnot savaging Democrats.

[0] A few isloated and, in the long run, unimportant events, like the LA riots, excepted.

Maybe right-wingers have no performance talent?

There is that.

Edited August 3, 2006 by jcl

[JDoors]

Basically all I was saying you don't have to believe in/agree with what an artists says to like their music. WHether it be their actual views or just what the music itself says.

But is there a point where their message is so antithetical to your own views that you should shun them?

The U.S. and England are allies, but we don't agree on everything, all the time. We easily tolerate the differences. There are however countries with views we cannot agree with under any circumstances. The people in that country are surely nice enough folk for the most part, some of those countries have plenty to contribute to the world stage, but we'll never be able to tolerate the differences.

Yeah, that does make worrying over an artist's political views seem insignificant.